Interview 09. You've been training so hard, but you still feel like I'm being squeezed? feat. Annsley & Andy

Interview verbatim

Awei: Hello everyone, I'm Awei

Annsley: Hi everyone, my name is Annsley

Andy: I'm Andy

Awei: Okay, today's opening is very brief

Annsley: It's short and to the point, just not entertaining

Awei: Yes, yes, no entertainment, let’s cut to the point

Annsley: (laughs)

Awei: Today we are going to discuss whether to hone or squeeze. Let me ask you this. Do you feel that there is something to hone in at work? Because there must be squeezing. yes?

Annsley: What's the difference between what you call grinding and squeezing?

Awei: It may be that one thing is for you, you think it is oppression... What else is good about that...

Annsley: Oh...actually both are sometimes at the same time, in some cases

Awei: Are you saying there is a turning point?

Annsley: Are you talking about a shift in mindset? Do you have some cases or something?

Awei: Well, let me give an example. I worked in a company before, and then my boss thought I was not good at socializing, so he would arrange for me to do a lot of social things, that is, contact with people, among them One thing is to help him do the laundry...

Annsley: Uh, that's a bit silly

Andy: What does laundry have to do with socializing?

Annsley: Yeah, what are you doing?

Awei: No, no, because I help him take the clothes to the laundromat for the laundry. He is the kind of laundromat that combines the service of a coffee shop, that is, he can interact with the people there a little bit, not to vote kind of coin

Annsley: Oh

Awei: So there will be a little interaction

Annsley: Yeah, it sounds a bit far-fetched

Andy: I also feel very far-fetched, and the mentality has changed very well.

Awei: Yes, so of course I couldn't do anything at first... I mean that's what he thought

Annsley: Hmm

Awei: Yes, yes, so of course I couldn't accept it at first. I felt that talking about this thing would be oppressive, and then it made me feel unhappy and even a little disrespected.

Andy: hmmm

Awei: Yes, yes, but it was not long after joining the company, so I didn't want to explode so early, so I went to adjust my mind slowly, of course, if you tell me, because this way Helping me improve my communication skills, I think it is oppression, then my idea is, I think his personality is very similar to me, he is this boss, even our birthdays are the same day, and then he uses this method to educate employees in the process , I feel a bit of a sense of sight, because I am also teaching some of my friends and partners in this way, and this is the way, and then I wanted to say "Huh? I don't seem to have experienced the other party's feelings", so I just want to understand from this angle and say that in the eyes of others I am a person like this, and then how will other people feel? Through this method, I want to learn from him, that is, to be able to understand each other feeling

Andy: Then I have a question, when you are so-called teaching your friends... well suppose in this situation, what do you think? Do you really want to teach him to be social? Or use communication to What about packing laundry?

Awei: I don’t think there is any package that is not packaged, that is, if it is packaged, it means that you still can’t live with it, but if you don’t package it, it means that you have accepted the idea, which is what I thought at that time, after I… For example, if I want to be a boss, I must understand the feelings of other people. Isn't there a saying that "you have to be an employee before you can be a boss"?

Andy: hmmm

Awei: Yes, yes, so I just want to go...experience, just feel the process, I think this is valuable, if I cooperate with others, I don't know why others are unhappy, how can I do this? long time?

Annsley: Hmm

Awei: So I think the value is here, then it doesn't matter how you say "I can help you or something", so this thing of mine is transformed from my own psychology to training

Annsley: hmmm

Andy: So did you really get the skill to communicate with others in the laundry?

Awei: Not at all

Everyone: (laughs)

Andy: OK, so what you call the conversion into hone, then what point do you hone? It's the communication thing

Awei: To hone... I am not hone communication, but hone a feeling, the feeling of experience

Andy: Oh, a revered concept, this feeling

Awei: Yes, yes, yes, yes, so I think in this way, I can accept it

Andy: understand

Annsley: I think this kind of thing actually happens, not only at work, but also in case reception and part-time jobs. There will be situations where it doesn't work out (Taiwanese)

Awei: Hmm, you said the quotation is too low, right?

Annsley: Yes, it's almost like this, yes it is, I think listening to what Awei just said, it's a bit like meeting him and then rationalizing him

Awei: Yes, yes, it's a bit like rationalization, yes

Annsley: Yes, then...that is when Awei is watching...that is, accepting this job, will see these other values, and then accept this job, or you just want to do this job, and then go Do, don't these added values influence your decision?

Awei: I think a lot of things are like the example I just did, but I can't predict it, so after I met, I couldn't accept being oppressed like this, so I slowly changed my mentality, so he didn't Maybe at the beginning you can understand where his added value is? It just became something I rationalized and figured out by myself, more like... Positive thinking?

Annsley: Oh, uh uh uh

Awei: Yes, like this

Annsley: There are still some situations, if this case, this case, he is very... how to say noble? It is still very rare, he is a big case, his reputation is very famous, and then you have to take his case , he wants you to quote a low price, then under this situation, will you look at his added value? Or will you first look at the fact that he quoted you low, to see if your own value is in where?

A Wei: I think this one is more like talking about the details of the case. If you just talked about the situation, of course I don’t think the price is OK. I will definitely think about other added value. idea

Annsley: Yeah

Awei: Yes. So in the case of balance, I can also accept it. If my added value is still no way to be higher than this feeling of squeezing, of course I will not accept it.

Annsley: So you still start by factoring in the added value and then lump it all together and evaluate it

Awei: Yes, of course, but it should be considered an opportunity cost, right?

Annsley: What about Andy?

Andy: Yeah, I do too

Annsley: you too

Andy: But maybe it's just practice, that is... When faced with the situation of choice or squeeze or tempering, it may not be so accurate to see this added value at first, that is, you are evaluating that love is an added value. There may be no way to see it clearly, but it may take a few squeezing before you have a way to assess the fundamental value of the added value before this event comes.

Awei: Your repeated squeezing has actually formed a temper, right?

Andy: That's right, but I think if this thing is squeezed too many times, the first time it happens, the second time it happens again, the third time...it's not a test, it's really a squeeze, it's a pressed material

Annsley: Actually, I have a deep impression. When I was studying quotations at the beginning, I asked Awei how to make quotations. Then Awei said such a sentence, which made a deep impression on me, he said. "You don't need to learn to lose money", that is, don't make yourself unhappy. Of course, I was still a beginner at that time, and I still quoted a relatively low price, and then I did meet in the middle when I was doing it. In many cases, I felt that I was at a disadvantage, because at that time I also included the added value, but after I did it, I realized that I didn’t actually feel that I was like this, and I would change myself relatively. I'm even less confident, that's why I want to say, although the opportunity is precious and the opportunity to hone is very precious, is it necessary to devalue yourself for this opportunity to fight for it? I mean, you will all go to the hone Added value in practice

Andy: yes

Annsley: Yes, but the value-added thing is just added value. Then your own things are very little, that is, your own remuneration is very little, then when you are doing it, will you feel Your things are only worth these rewards, and the added value feels like the kind of feeling that others give you. Then your own value is only this. Relatively speaking, you devalue yourself for this opportunity. To get this chance like this

Awei: If you think this way, it means that the added value is not greater than your uncomfortable part at all.

Annsley: Hmm

Awei: Yes, so this matter should not have been done in the first place.

Andy: In addition to going online and evaluating the range of their quotations in the industry, this is an evaluation method. The next very simple evaluation method is whether it will be uncomfortable as Awei just said, because later on, we will get out of a concept. , that is to say... Is it a matter of striving for price and negotiating on price, it still jumps out, it is actually the quotation or the added value, etc., it is the balance point that both parties should be comfortable with, but usually we are looking at It must be this price, how does he feel, how does I feel, but if it is a very simple evaluation method, that is, you probably know the range, and then this price is acceptable and comfortable for me, and both parties are OK , that's actually fine

Annsley: Hmm

Awei: Then how will you reach that comfort point for both parties?

Andy: My word, OK... I might have asked about the range of this place before, and then maybe his range is very big, but you must be more comfortable than this big range, maybe some of them A small section, then you can have your own bottom line in this section, then if you want, the tabloid may explode a little higher. But don't exceed your comfort point, and then if you exceed... Suppose your price is lower than your comfort point, you have to find another rationalized reason to convince yourself that you have other added value, then this situation is It would be to convince myself, but it is not really the consensus of the two sides. The quotation is the consensus of both parties.

Awei: I think this statement is not wrong, but the part in front of me that only looks at the added value is to establish a premise that "I don't want to leave the company at present", so I will continue to increase it. Added value, then of course the reasonable part of what you just said is... We mainly still need to see whether the essence of this thing has... Because you can choose whether to accept it or not.

Annsley: Yeah

Awei: But I was working at that time, I had no way to do it or not to do it.

Andy: So it should be a difference in relationship, one is a partnership, the other is an affiliation

Awei: Yes, yes, so when you can decide whether to accept or not, I think this is the art of quoting, so I can just respond to you just now that you said there is a range, but the premise of this range is to It is based on the fact that the other party also knows this range, because in fact, I have quoted many prices and the other party has no concept at all. He may think that this item may be expensive, and then you quote it for a cheap price, then... Of course it is the best way to receive it. Okay, but there is one part of him who will think, "I can't buy good stuff for cheap?", ah, if the other part is that he thinks this thing is very cheap, but you pay for it, you have to educate him again, This makes no sense, so I'm actually quite interested in your offer, how would you report it?

Annsley: I think the education you mentioned is also a point, that is, you can split your work. For example, as you told me before, "the design should count the number of revisions and list the price." Let him know that this thing is not easy to do, but we need to collect a lot of materials, and then do a lot of adjustment and communication, and then we have to spend time to let him know the situation, and then let him know the situation. He knows he spends the money, either in the water or in the feeling that we make a lot of money

Awei: Mmmm

Andy: I think this thing is...because what Awei just said is...that is the problem of the cognitive gap between the two sides, then I think that when talking about cooperation, you can use some words to see whether he understands it or not, or Say that you tell the market price, for example, you are talking about "Well, when we were designing this thing, you know that the market price is like this, this, this", and then use this thing to talk about it, just Leak a little... drop a message, drop a message, drop a message...

Awei: Every now and then

Andy: Yeah, every now and then... not every now and then, but at least when you lose you'll know he's going "Oh, I know!" or "Oh, true or false?"

Annsley: Hmm

Andy: Yes, then at this time you will have a bottom line in your heart, and you will know about... "OK, my range is 10 to 15 yuan, so where should I go to report?", probably like this a way

Awei: uh uh uh

Annsley: So for many of the original recipients who want to do the case with the mentality of "learning"

Awei: I don’t think it’s OK to do this. Although I did it this way at the beginning, that is, I don’t want to be paid, and then we will help you do it for free, but you are destroying the market.

Andy: On the one hand, it destroys the market. On the other hand, when you are doing this thing, the quality will not be better than the salary you deserve.

Annsley: What do you mean?

Andy: It's ok. If you take a case today, you deserve 25,000, but if you only get 10,000, you will feel like a bad gamble.

Awei: hmmm

Andy: Yes, then when you do it at this time, you will be a little impetuous, and you will be like "Why do I do it for you so well?" I know from the bottom of my heart what he wants, that is, he accumulates a portfolio of works, so that the possible resumes of future cases will look better...

Ah Wei: Yeh, two-point thinking (laughs)

Andy: Yes, then if that's the case, then it's another matter, that is, you know that the essence of what you want at this time is to accumulate profiles, then you will be very happy doing it, because you deserve it.

Awei: There is only one purpose

Andy: Yes, yes, but you know that you want money now, but you don't get what you deserve in money, then you will be impetuous when you do it

Annsley: Well, I've seen one before that counts as an album? Anyway, it was the guy who wanted to be a photographer's assistant, and he said to the photographer "I can be your assistant for free, and as long as I It would be nice if I could study next to you." Then I remembered what the photographer seemed to say, that is, he didn't quite agree with this point.

Awei: This mode

Annsley: He doesn't really agree with this model, he thinks that you... it's this kind of thing that is your passion, and then you should get what you deserve, the passion you put in, and then you should get what you deserve. Pay, then go support your passion like this

Andy: But I think it also depends on the ability, that is, you may design this position in the industry and assume that it has a value of 1,000, but you also know that you may be just starting

Annsley: Yeah

Andy: At this time, do you want to report to others for 1200? 1000? At this time, will it seem over-the-top? Your main goal at this time may be to accumulate experience first, perhaps with some famous people. , or it is worth learning, to accumulate experience or accumulate your resume... Wait, if this is the key point, then I think this quotation, a lower price may be reasonable

Annsley: Actually, I think it's a bit like you practice calligraphy and calligraphy, and then when you start writing, if you use newspapers to practice directly, you won't be very nervous to practice every character, but if you start Just use that kind of very expensive paper to practice, and you will think, "Hey, I can't write this wrong, I want to show my best performance every time", so I think it's a matter of reporting low at the beginning. I'm making a compromise of myself, that is, I don't know how to do it anyway, and then I also take this as a study, then it doesn't matter if I make a little mistake, I won't have that kind of trembling mentality

Andy: I was persuaded by you

Awei: But I actually don't agree with it. It's the practice of putting yourself down. I'm not the one who wants to be conceited, but you don't need to put yourself down so much, because it is assumed that the other party is the boss, then if you do this If the child pushes himself down, and then he can accept it, then isn't the relationship between the two of you from this place...is it from a negative score?

Andy: Let me add that what I just said may be that the original market changed from 1000 to 900 because of your psychological range, not just "Oh I have to quote 900 because I'm just starting out", then you may...

Annsley: a range to kill him

Andy: Yes, you think you are comfortable with the things on paper or your resume that you have accumulated now, plus the price you underreported, but if you have been in the market for a while today, then of course you underreported It's unreasonable, because there is no need to increase your resume because I cooperate with him.

Annsley: Hmm

Andy: But today, assuming you are a blank slate, the first time you take at least the market price... The range may be lower than 50, how much lower, but this thing is based on the added value, that is, after evaluating what you get from your resume You are comfortable, yeah

Annsley: Hmm

Andy: Do you understand what I'm saying?

Annsley: I know, then I'll set a situation, if you apply for this job today, and you have no experience, then I'll say "Well, you have no experience today, then I'll start today... If the market is 20,000 Eight, I'll give you 20,000 yuan first. You have no experience with this thing, so let you learn first." In this case, would you say accept it? Or would you just reject it?

Andy: But I don't think it's a single event, you have to assess the situation you're in right now

Annsley: If it's all OK, that is, you just want to learn in this job, and your goal is really learning, then would you accept the price?

Awei: I think it depends on how to talk about it, just… talk about it

Annsley: Have a good talk with him about the money part?

Awei: I can only accept or not accept without me. It is what I told you before, and it is in the middle.

Annsley: Hmm

Andy: Yes, you give me an A or a B, but after I think about it, I don't want either, but I can continue to tell you if there are other solutions

Annsley: Hmm

Awei: In this process, you can make him feel different. You are not just a worker.

Annsley: Oh, you change your mentality to his, and see things from the same angle as him

Awei: Yes, yes, yes, especially during the interview, there is absolutely no need for you to put yourself down. You are evaluating me, and I am evaluating you.

Annsley: Yes, yes, I often say in interviews, "Ah, our budget is only 30,000 yuan to invite you, although the current market price is 35,000 yuan", then in this situation, what would you do, Awei ?

A Wei: I think there are other places that can subsidize my part, because what he said means that if you want to accept 30,000 yuan, or we can't hire you

Annsley: Yes

Awei: But the other way can be to say, can my working hours be less? Can I work from home? Can I do it? If these things can make up the five thousand yuan, I think it is worth it, then OK

Annsley: Oh

Awei: Yes, so this is also a discussion, not that I can only decide whether I want 30,000 or I want to go.

Annsley: Yes

Awei: Yes, and when you are talking, he can understand more about your value

Andy: And I think like Awei, in the part of the conversation he just talked about, in addition to the event itself, you can also know the position of the company you are interviewing for, or that their mentality is different from your own. Where is the gap, because like I had an experience before... that is, I may use a mentality to say that we are equal, but the supervisor does not think that we are equal

Awei: hmmm

Andy: Yes, yes, then of course you don't have a consensus when you talk like this, that is, what if I come here, but he thinks that...

Annsley: I just hired you

Andy: Yes, then why would you... "Why do you want to talk or talk? Why?", he felt that I was going to use you, then in this situation, you have to realize this things before making other decisions

Annsley: So what kind of decisions did you make then?

Andy: Actually, he really wanted to join that company at that time, but he had a problem... I seemed to be talking and talking at that time, just these two words, he said "Huh? Then why did you just Do you want to talk about it?", then it was difficult for me to answer, because my thinking at the time was that a job is that if the two sides get along or it feels good to talk, then we can work together, but he is not like this Think, we've...he thought "We're already a big company, so why are you talking about it today, do you really want this job?" And when that happens, you'll know "Oh , OK, no drama."

Annsley: It kind of feels like he's holding you down

Andy: yes yes yes

Awei: I think this looks very bad

Annsley: I also don't think it's good

Awei: I wouldn't choose a job like this

Andy: Mmmmmmmmm, yes, so in the process of talking, I probably know each other, so I know what's going on in my heart, and I have a bottom line.

Annsley: But there are actually some cases where he will quote you such a low price because he does not see what you are paying for, for example, he feels the impact of the epidemic now, so the cost on their side should be reduced, Then he didn't see that you can actually make more money in that hour, but you came here to do some learning, but your time is not only worth the money, yes, it can let him know that your time is actually There needs to be more apps, and you have to have the pressure of paying the rent, you have your own position, and let him understand that

Awei: I don't think I agree with this

Annsley: Disagree ?

Awei: No matter what you do, you are trying to win his sympathy.

Annsley: It 's not to gain sympathy, it's to explain his position to him, and then why do you disagree with the conditions he put forward?

Andy: My part...I will also tell you my position. I also don't think I will talk about rent or anything in the negotiation, or in the interview.

Awei: Yes, then it has nothing to do with the other party.

Andy: Because when I'm in charge, then I'm like, "Hey, you're not going to live cheaper then?"

Awei: yes

Andy: You are going to come to my company for an interview today, or you want the job, then we may have written it clearly on the Human Resources Bank, and then the range is here, then today you...we Talking about this range today, then why did you mention the rent to me, I will clearly write it to you, then this should be your own business, not the consensus between me and you, I don't need to manage the rent

Awei: Then if he writes a face-to-face negotiation

Annsley: Negotiable are the recurring salary of more than 40,000 yuan

Awei: yes yes yes

Andy: Negotiable…

Annsley: Then you live in a thirty thousand house

Andy: Then I'll just discuss with him, because he wrote the interview himself and I'll let you...

Annsley: Yes, it should be fine to write a face-to-face negotiation.

Andy: Some supervisors will ask you to just put forward the salary you want, then I will put forward that I think I can afford the salary for my living.

Awei: I've been driving high like I was before. If you ask me, I'll show it to you.

Andy: Yeah

Annsley: What would you say about this situation? Because you can actually create more value at your own time.

Awei: I think it is up to you whether to create more value or not. The premise is how much he knows. Instead, this is what you need to evaluate.

Annsley: So how do we talk about this part? Let's say... I told you today that my salary is 22,000, and then because you are just starting, you have to learn this way

Awei: Actually, when I encountered such a problem in my previous job, I would always ask, "How long was this period of time?", and then I would set a KPI with him, for example, if I wanted to learn something from one to ten, Then I asked him how long it would take me to learn this subject, and he said three months, then I asked him if I could learn ten within a month, if I could raise my salary, I would just change to a full-time position, if he hesitated If you do, I might consider it, which means you are bluffing me

Annsley: Yes

Awei: But if he thinks it's OK, because it's a way to show ambition, then if he thinks it's OK, then this talk is OK, what you're talking about is your hope I can grow to that stage and get the salary I deserve. I think it's OK, but if you don't actually think that way, and you just want to bet me on this, this question can be asked right away.

Annsley: Oh

Andy: I think the situation just now was when his supervisor gave you 20,000 yuan. When you receive this salary, the first thing you need to evaluate is whether the 20,000 yuan is within the acceptable range. If not, I think it's a good way to be like Awei just now

Annsley: Hmm

Andy: That's right... Where does the time go? During that time, I was concentrating on my so-called added value, then you can turn it into the essence, because now you want to quickly accumulate ability, and then the salary becomes your essence

Annsley: Hmm

Andy: Yes, yes, then I think the matter of ambition will be very important, because I think that in the previous interview process, the supervisor or the people who interviewed you, they all looked at your talent. There is no ambition, no matter it is salary or learning, it will be very important, because the life of salary loan, that ability represents your responsibility in work, yes, those things are closely related. The thing is that there are two sides of one body, so I have been mentioned before about the idea of ambition, so it will be so profound

Everyone: (laughs)

Awei: Okay, let’s share today’s conclusion

Annsley: Well... it sounds like this, in fact, at present... in fact, more or less everyone still encounters this kind of problem, then learning a new way of thinking and communication will make this problem a lot slower. When a question of right and wrong appears in front of you, you can no longer choose whether you want to accept or you want to leave, but you can make a balance with it, make a fight, and then you can take the opportunity to show your own value

Awei: Yes, I think this is very important, that is, you should not be framed by the frame all the time, you sometimes jump out and others will shine

Annsley: hmmmm

Ah Wei: What about Andy Le?

Andy: Well... I think in addition to evaluating the nature of this topic and the added value that can be obtained, in fact, sometimes during the negotiation process, you may try to make an offer or make a condition. When it is opened and the other party accepts it, you will feel "huh? OK", that is, other challenges after you. In fact, you also have the courage to break through the framework, right, let's just give an example at the end, because I just I think it's a bit too general, because I have a friend who is accepting a case. Someone called him before, and it was a case. Then the price he quoted was higher than what he quoted in the past, but the other party accepted it. , and gladly accepted

Annsley: Hmm

Andy: Yes, that makes him feel that on the one hand, he has done a few cases in the past. This point can be regarded as his breakthrough point, then his acceptable range and his comfort zone have actually expanded, so I think In addition to my inside evaluation, I think I can try to negotiate the external ability to see this

Annsley: And I think what Andy just said is actually a way to get yourself out of your comfort zone, because if you report high, you will be under more pressure, but when you are under more pressure, you will have If you grow up, you will make the best use of this project, you will not just hand over the business, because this time you are paying a high price, you will be responsible for this price, and you will make progress in every case. in this way

Awei: Well, it doesn't sound like the quotations on the Internet must be followed by the above. The main thing is that sometimes a small breakthrough is not bad, that is, you can try it to see if you have reached that stage.

Annsley: Hmm

Awei: Yes, okay, then this episode will be like this first

Annsley: Okay, bye bye

Andy: goodbye

Awei: Bye bye

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