Interview 08. Freelancer or Moth to Fire? feat. Annsley & Andy

Interview verbatim

Annsley: Hello everyone, I'm Annsley, I'm back to buy a pack of cigarettes for me, and I'm also inviting Andy and Awei today.

Andy: Hello, I'm Andy

Awei: Hello, I'm Awei

Annsley: I actually encountered some problems recently, because I switched to a new role, and this role is more like a freelancer role. Although I have a small part-time job myself, freelancers have become the majority, and then I also started taking some cases myself, and during this period, I thought that the two are actually veterans of freelancer.

Andy: I'm not that old anymore, I'm probably just a baby bird

Annsley: Are you a baby bird?

Andy: yes yes yes

Annsley: So am I an egg?

Everyone: (laughs)

Andy: Almost, almost the concept, okay, then we invite a veteran, Awei should be a veteran

A Wei: There is no old bird, no old bird

Annsley: You don't have an old bird?

Awei: I'm... a middle school bird

Everyone: (laughs)

Andy: What is a Chinese bird?

A Wei: It 's just that he just entered middle school.

Annsley: OK OK, alright alright

Andy: teenage bird

Annsley: So ugly

Everyone: (laughs)

Annsley: In fact, I have encountered some problems recently. It is my mentality. I had saved a sum of money before I left, but the sudden oncoming financial pressure made me have to pay attention to this thing. This kind of insecurity appeared, and then I wanted to ask the two of you until now... From the beginning of being freelancers to now, is there anything that bothers you?

Andy: I'll do it first, I'm also money, I'm still money,

Annsley: Or the money stage?

Andy: Yeah

Annsley: Then our senior bird

Awei: I am also money

Everyone: (laughs)

Annsley: I'm going to have to worry about money for so long

Awei: Everyone is money, because I think becoming a freelancer should have a goal of your own, or a state you want, so you manage it yourself, so if you have reached that state, you will not be a freelancer Hey, so at this stage of freelancer, I think, you should all want to make money in your own way.

Annsley: It's not that you want to spend all your time on work, it's not work, it's that you don't want to spend all your time on work that you don't like

Awei: Yes, I just don’t want to do the same thing over and over again, I want to make a little progress, and then invest in myself like this

Annsley: Because in fact, it should be pretty easy for you (Andy) to go part-time and do some work, why do you continue to maintain this status

Andy: I think the first one is time, because I feel that I am working, or working part-time, for a fixed time, and then I am bound, but in fact, it is not necessary to use such time to complete a certain amount. This is the first thing, that's why I want to say it, then come out yourself... that is, you can arrange your own time, and the second is that I think the advantage of being a freelancer is that you can try it in your own way. develop your own skills

Annsley: Actually, I used to think that freelancer is because your hourly salary is higher than your original job, so you chose to be this role

Awei: I think it depends. It's more like the previous kind of full-time job, and then part-time blogger. When the part-time job is more than the full-time job, you want to change it all over.

Annsley: Yeah yeah yeah

Awei: But most people rarely have such an opportunity, right?

Annsley: It 's because I'm actually quite busy with work, and it's not easy to succeed on the blog.

Awei: Yes, and like this case, he is more likely to choose whether he wants a full-time job or a freelancer, but now most people just treat the freelancer as a full-time job, so there will be nothing The concept of "I seem to earn more from my side business than my main business, and then I will do a side business", is that I quit my main business to concentrate on running my side business.

Annsley: Comparing the dream freelancer status

Awei: Yes, yes, so most people may prepare an empty burn before leaving the company

Annsley: Hmm

Awei: Yes, yes, then I think there will be a sense of panic at the beginning of doing freelancer, it should be that the funds are about to disappear

Annsley: No, my funds are not going to disappear. I think I can use the funds for one year or even two years, but I am very reluctant to use the funds, that is, I would like to use some of my own funds. Part-time job, and some of the income from the case at the beginning, then at least to maintain a living, and then don't burn that money

Awei: Hmm, that is the balance between profit and loss

Annsley: Right, right, that kind of feeling, what about Andy? How long did you prepare to burn the money before you stepped into this path?

Andy: Actually, I didn't say what kind of funds were specially prepared...

Annsley: Really? You step in with such confidence

Andy: I didn't prepare a fund in order to get a freelancer, because I was actually looking for a job.

Annsley: Oh

Andy: Yes, and then there are cases to take. On the other hand, I want to develop another new skill, and then there is an opportunity to become a long-term cooperation with freelancer, and then we accidentally step into freelancer, so the funds This one, I am still very worried about it now, because now my friends may want to be a freelancer or something, and then they will save it, or I just need to burn it like starting a business... I just prepare myself to burn it first. It's been like this for a few years, so I can be regarded as a relatively different opportunity, and it can also be regarded as a bit more reckless

A Wei: Then he is very lucky, because after he leaves, he can still take some cases from the original company, or some other cases, because many freelancers I know can't take cases.

Annsley: Oh, that's pretty lucky

Andy: Yes, yes, mainly because I also cultivate a good relationship with some people.

Awei : shit

Everyone: (laughs)

Andy: I think I really treat some customers with my heart, or something, when I am with them...I can cultivate contacts, so when they have this opportunity, they will think of you like this

Annsley: Hmmmm , actually... Yes, there is a lot of help from friends. I have some part-time jobs too, and some cases are also from friends. So it seems that to be this role, the psychological need is quite big...

Awei: pressure resistance

Annsley: Yes, it's quite stress-resistant. What kind of mentality does Andy think he needs to have if he wants to become a freelancer?

Andy: I think the first one is to be responsible for yourself, because now there is no company boss who can help you take responsibility, and then you may do something wrong, and there will be no supervisor to help you stand in front, so if you do the right thing or If you do anything wrong, you are responsible for it, so under such a mentality, it will be the things you need to manage and face. This is the first

Awei: Do you have your own personal feelings?

Andy: I think this is a very obvious feeling, because like I have had some major incidents in the company before, that is, the customer may be upset or something, and then the boss will jump out at that time.

Annsley: help you out

Andy: Yes, then I am... I have to go, but I also hide behind it like this, but... because I think the scale is different, I think this thing is possible when you become a freelancer, you need to have a management mentality

Annsley: It's the mentality of running yourself and taking responsibility for yourself

Andy: Yes, the mentality of the business is that you now represent yourself, or your brand, so you can't have one, which is "I'm helping others" and then...

Annsley: Employee Mentality

Andy: Yes, the mentality of the employees is like this

Annsley: Actually, I chatted with one of my clients at that time, and then we talked about his previous job, that is, he had been in business, and then I said to him, "Huh? Is it really necessary to be a business once in life? It's just... will you grow in your career?" Then he said "No, in fact, your current role is also a business, but the things you sell are yourself", maybe it's a feeling, that is, to become a freelancer , like I just sounded, you have to take responsibility for yourself

Andy: The second point is that you have to arrange your own time, because when you are a freelancer, work and life are integrated, and no one will ask you to clock in and go to work, so your whole life, you need to I arrange it myself, so the mentality of self-discipline is also important, that is, I recently discovered something, because I think I have a relatively small mentality, that is, I am easily influenced by others, so this situation also leads to the possibility of life later, or The whole schedule will be messy,

Annsley: You mean that you don't really turn down invitations from friends, and then you do this...is to go to the appointment, and then your work will be delayed like this? It was at the beginning.

Andy: Let me give an example, because my roommate is a person who is used to sleeping late, so I may sometimes see him next door, and after the lights are bright, I want to come and have a night with him but I know I'm not a person who can go to bed very late, and then I might have a chat or a meal, and then I start getting myself very late, and then I wake up the next day regretting it, and then like this Day after day, day after day, and then maybe later on, it's like you're not in a good mood, or you're not productive at work... etc, but it's all because as far as I know, I'm supposed to be sleeping at that time, but I I didn't go to sleep, I just...

Annsley: seduced by me

Andy: Yes, I was tempted by the bright lights like this

Annsley: Are you a mosquito?

Everyone: (laughs)

Andy: Yeah, I'm Firefly, eh?

Annsley: Moth Moth

Andy: Oh, it's a moth

Annsley: Well, it's a moth, what about Awei? What kind of mentality does it take to make you into this character

Awei: I think Andy's state is just the beginning... It's a bit like the feeling of you flying out of the cage in high school and college.

Annsley: Yeah, kind of like

Awei: It just becomes too free, and then you will feel that I can do whatever I want now, and then you are still chased by things. These things may be things you promised the customer or something, and then lead to Your time management will become... Every time it feels like handing in homework before the deadline, and then there is no way to say that there is additional growth, because you don't hand in homework until that time, how do you have extra time to go Diligent?

Annsley: Hmm

Awei: Yes, yes, so I think I am different. I have been taking cases when I was a student, and since then I have been doing business this way, so the habit I have developed has become that I will put things first. Going forward is just sneaking away. Suppose I make an appointment with the client, for example, if I have a meeting next week or next week or something, but I may have finished all last week, and it will be like this, I will stay... It is possible to leave a large period of time blank. During that time, I can use it freely, that is, I have to improve myself, or if a friend suddenly asks me or something, I think this is very important. Because since I have become a freelancer, I have no way to accept other people's invitations casually. It feels very strange. This is my request for myself, so I will finish it soon after I get things done. So I will now compare...the time will feel a lot, and then I will feel more free, I really feel free

Annsley: Oh, actually, I think you just said something that I really liked, that is, flying out of the cage, because now I am in a state of being a little bit like I just got free, and there is nothing to run after me except the case, so I It is the deadline to complete the case, then the rest of the time may be like Andy's, that is, it is spent on entertainment, or eating late night, at the beginning, did you have this in the beginning?

Awei: Well... this may also have a little bonus to personality

Annsley: So no?

Awei: But I feel a little bit like I've had enough, because I just didn't study all the way, so I play a lot, and when you've had enough, you feel like you want to do something meaningful

Annsley: Hmm

Awei: Yes, yes, so this is also applied to the freelancer mentality, it becomes saying that you will no longer be... go to cares and say you "what is not done yet?", but you will look at it and say "you today What are you doing?", and then if you have nothing to do today, and you have no arrangements to improve yourself, or to fill that time, you will become very empty instead

Annsley: Oh, it's about the opportunity cost of time

Awei: Yes, yes, yes, yes, so now I have become... If you let me have nothing to do for a week, I will feel a little bit angry with myself

Annsley: Hmmmm , we seem to have discussed last time, the part where you don't do things and then you get a little discouraged with yourself

Awei: Yes, what the hell are you doing? Then you obviously have time to use, but you're just doing shit over there.

Annsley: Well, does Andy think he's had enough now? (laughs)

Andy: I didn't spend all my time on supper, okay, I didn't spend all my time on entertainment, yeah, I just like this

Annsley: No, I mean your mindset, has it changed?

Andy: I think the difficulty I encounter is that I need to be alone for a long time, but I will like a lot of people a little bit, and then when I am alone, I will be a little bit... I think it is also related to personality, because Like my roommate, it is also a freelancer, then he is alone, then he can do a lot of things, then I can do a lot of things by myself, but I may assume that I am alone one day, then I really There is no way, so my one may be diligent, or to learn something, I may need a group of people, and then study like this

Annsley: Do you prefer the feeling of working together?

Andy: I like to work by myself, but I also like to study with a group of people. It should be said that I like the work style of freelancer, but I like a group of people. Maybe learn something new and have a partner, but not just for the company do things like this

Annsley: Is your current state is that you can be like A Wei and feel that you are enough, and then quickly enter the working state? Or do you still have some parts that need to be adjusted

Andy: But I don't think it's play and work to be separated, because play or... depends on how you define play, it's like... If it's like the old night dance and night singing, then that I may not be interested now, but I think I can learn some things in the play. It is not necessarily possible that I have to learn a very hard technology. This is called not playing. You can also learn some skills in the play.

Annsley: Any examples?

Andy: It's like... For example, I'm going to learn music today, I don't necessarily have to go to the Internet, Youtube, and then see how to use these tools, what keys must be pressed, and how to get there Use, I may be able to play music with others. During the process of playing music, I may naturally know how to use this editing software, then I may be creating, or in other words, how about we just sing and sing together, Then post-production together, then I naturally learn this software, but sometimes we may feel that sometimes we have to sit down and then...

Annsley: start a teaching

Andy: Yes, give a lecture, then read a... a book, and then take notes, this is called learning, but I don't think learning something has to be so hard, because like me, I may be in my current state. When I learn things, I always learn this way, but I feel that this way of learning is a bit painful for me to implement at present.

Annsley: Pain?

Andy: The first is that I'm afraid to say if I study by myself, but I feel good about myself

Annsley: You're saying that you think you're great, but you're actually pretty good in the industry

Andy: Yes, I may be learning... I know how to do it this way, then I am in the market or compared with others, and where I am in the end, I may not have a concept, so I am I think it is possible to get along with people, or to learn together, maybe you have a position, maybe you know better...you know your own...whether it is skills, or the degree of learning is good.

Annsley: Actually, I think that being a freelancer also has an advantage, that is, you can learn a new thing from the channel you are interested in, like software, you may go to classes in the company, but if you have a freelancer At this time, you can learn about software from music, but in my current state, I can't play enough, I'll burn out if I play enough.

Awei: hmmm

Annsley: Yes, that is, does Awei have some advice for me? People like me are

Awei: What kind of person...(laughs)

Annsley: No, because it's impossible for me to play, and then I play around and think I've had enough, I don't need to play anymore

Awei: I think this echoes what Andy just said, that is, it's not necessarily what you mean by playing, or what you mean by not playing, but what is your purpose in doing this? You go with a purpose. Do this thing, and then you will gain something. I don't think it is too important to play or not. If you are interested in this thing, then you really work hard to get it. Even if the process of it is to play, you still learn. what

Annsley: It's a little too dreamy for me

Awei: So I think this has a lot to do with self-management. If you want to play today, it means that you may not be able to make rapid progress in a short period of time. You may be gradual and follow that passion and motivation to learn. It's bound to take a long time for you

Annsley: It's going to be a lot harder, because it's impossible to realize it right away at the beginning

Awei: Well... Yes, so it has a longer fermentation period, so do you have to stay in this period for a longer period of time? So is that the way of profit that you originally used to maintain your livelihood? The time will be shortened? It means that you may have to strengthen the part you are working on, and then finish it faster, so that you can make more time behind you, and let it go slowly. What you are playing becomes valuable, so it complements each other. If you are not focused enough when you are working, and if you are not fast enough, you will have less time later, and you will feel like saying, "Why hasn't it fermented yet? Didn't ferment?", and then I felt that I was playing, and then I was going the wrong way.

Annsley: Are you wasting your time?

Awei: Yes, yes, it's a vicious circle, but in fact, as long as you do what you should do is to do it well, and then when you play later, you will also play more... more steadfast, And since you have a lot of time behind, then if your livelihood still can’t reach that standard, you can also shorten the time you play, and then… you know what I mean? It’s the part of your livelihood, you can strengthen it and increase the time

Annsley: It's a balance, you have to balance your life

Awei: Yes, yes, yes, so the main thing is your time control, because too many people's time is wasted just because they think they are busy, but when they have time, they will start scrolling their phones when they have time. Looks great too

Annsley: Yes…

Awei: Uh... said you, right?

Everyone: (laughs)

Annsley: Oh no, I just heard your thoughts and came up with an idea. Our previous work was actually a concept, that is, we sold our own time to the boss in the form of wholesale price, and then you are His, then your work efficiency is not good, or if you may have some slowness in it, the cost of burning is the boss, because the boss has bought your time with a bunch of money, but we return to When freelancer is in this state, it means that you take your time apart and sell it for retail, but you can sell a higher price in retail, that is, you can use this retail price to exchange your livelihood, some money, but you can also buy your own time to do the things you are interested in

Awei: hmmm

Annsley: So when you go… kind of like buy and sell, you buy your own time, you sell it, and you go get the money for a living

Awei: Yes, it's just a lever. You've been working as a freelancer slowly, and then gradually reduce the effort that requires effort, and still have the same output.

Annsley: Yes, it's similar, so I think I've been slowly feeling it lately... I used to research a software when I was working, and I never came to a research meeting. During this period, I was not under pressure, and I felt that I am learning something because I have to solve a problem of the boss, but after I become a freelancer, I also have to solve the problem of the customer, such as setting things, but I will start to worry at this time, because I buy it with me The time spent in these retail sales... means that the leverage is a bit low, that is, I spent this time, but the reward I got in exchange did not match my original composition.

Awei: Mmmm

Annsley: Yes, you will suddenly realize that this pressure exists, so it may not only be about money, but also realize that your time is precious

Awei: After you become a freelancer, no one will bear the cost with you

Annsley: yes yes yes

Awei: Originally, the boss would take the responsibility with you

Annsley: Yeah, that's true

Awei: yes

Annsley: Okay, that's the last part, I want to say please Awei and Andy, these two veterans are here to give some advice, that is, to some people who want to become freelancers or just become freelancers Some suggestions, or list a few conditions, then Awei first

Awei: I think it is the self-management I just talked about, self-management, time management, and project management. These three depend on whether you have a way to be a freelancer and you can do it stably. I think this is a foundation.

Annsley: Well, how do you train this thing?

Awei: I think it's still about the mentality, that is, you take this matter as your own business, you don't use the employee mentality to feel that "anyway, I know it will be completed within the time" kind of mentality, you take it When you've been burning your own time, you'll want to minimize costs

Annsley: Yes

Awei: Yes, yes, it is very important that you take things as your own.

Annsley: Well, what about Andy?

Andy: I think management is the same as Awei, that is, regardless of time management or my own case management, that's it, I have a deep understanding, because I don't think I am very good at being a freelancer, that is, management is not yet. If you do it well, it may sometimes... just like what A Wei just said, "Oh, it's good to finish it within time", but when you do this, it will affect your mentality and the state of your entire work. Manage the impact of this matter, so I think self-discipline and good time, project management, these are... I think it is basic and very important

Annsley: So it sounds like this, I think it seems to be from mentality to self-discipline, that is, from mentality to action, start adjusting from your mentality, and then finally echo your own actions. In fact, it seems that basically your mentality has changed you. action, and the angle from which you look at things, it will be automatically adjusted.

Awei: Then it's back to "taking things as your own" to do

Andy: hmmm

Annsley: Well, we're here today, I just hope that those who listen to this episode today will have something to gain, thank you, then do you want to say goodbye?

Awei: I think it's a good show

Everyone: (laughs)

Annsley: Whoops

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