专访三篇
IPFS
最近读到三篇斯拉夫语系知识分子（暂且这么称呼吧，三人分别来自白俄罗斯、俄罗斯、保加利亚）的访谈，摘取部分。 话题与说中文的我们此刻最紧迫的关切不同，但并不无关。
我每听到上海传来的种种录音，都额外因为市民说话的口音、用词多了一重难过。 年轻女性和我自己的口音那么像，连急起来那些无意义的习惯性语词都一致;年长老人说话和养我长大的祖辈那么像，总是客客气气的，称呼对方用 “同志”，普通话夹杂了方言...... 这是在时代共感的绝望、无助之外另一层切肤的痛觉。
在这三篇斯拉夫语系知识分子的访谈里，也有一种我们熟悉的语气，是那样紧贴着皮肉、不可言喻的东西。 但这种讲话的姿态在我们自己的语言里实在是已经生疏了。
Svetlana Alexievich 说，极权主义传统养育了生长在其中的人们。 他们的灵魂浸润了这种传统。 他们不仅成为奴隶，而且浪漫化这种奴役。 ...... 我承认自己培育了一种希望，即在 21 世纪，暴政已经没有立足之地，但现实在我们面前化为齑粉。
Maria Stepanova 说，普京和他的同类都持有同一种唯我论，想成为所有人的作家、所有人的编剧。 世界于他（们）不过是一幅静物画，砸碎一个温顺的瓷盘，盘子不会尖叫。
Ivan Krastev 说，对普京而言，俄罗斯早就不是标准意义上的国家了，而是一具有千年历史的身体。 ...... （俄罗斯的中产阶级）有理由希望，旧常态会随着疫情结束而恢复，但战争让人们意识到，再也没有旧常态了。
1 - Israel Hayom 采访 Svetlana Alexievich
'We were wrong to think totalitarianism would disappear peacefully'
"I don't doubt the role of the leader in history, but the main issue goes deeper. The main problem is that the totalitarian tradition of Communism didn't die. It nurtured people who lived within it for too long and absorbed it [the tradition] in their souls. They didn't just become slaves but romantics of slavery. They are still convinced that the Soviet world was founded on justice and are striving to return to how things were before."
...
"On my return to Moscow I told friends and acquaintances: There is no connection between what's happening among the educated elites of Moscow and what's bubbling in the depths of Russia.
...
"I remember the atmosphere that gripped the country, the lofty spirit of the demonstrators who went joyfully into the streets, dressed in white, with flowers in their hands. We fell into the same snare of naivety and idealism like in the 1990s, because we really wanted to believe that freedom is a celebration, and that it would fall on our heads in a moment, almost without effort. We were wrong in the illusion that totalitarianism disappears peacefully, we really fell in love with the ways of Gandhi. I admit to myself that I nurtured the hope that in the 21st century there is no place for the tradition of tyranny, and the reality was shattered before us."
2 - Financial Times 采访 Maria Stepanova
The war of Putin’s imagination
https://www.ft.com/content/c2797437-5d3f-466a-bc63-2a1725aa57a5
This is what is occupying Putin at this moment: the enactment of his personal will, the attempt to rewrite the history of Ukraine and Europe, to change our present and determine our future. He plans to draw Ukraine, Russia, Europe, the world (and everyone who is constantly refreshing the live news) into the appalling book he has himself written. He believes that from now on we will exist only within his book; he wants to be our author, our screenwriter, the one who knows how to change our lives for the better. But now the results of his handiwork are clear for all to see.
You could say that this is the essence of every dictatorship and the logic of every dictator — the need to assert his own solipsism, a sense of the living populated world as a still-life painting, a nature morte, in which the meek china plates on the table won’t scream out if you smash them. But to my mind this is a special case: there is, behind the movement of Russian military vehicles, a genuine fear of the existence of an Other, a desperate desire to crush this Other, to reform it, ingest it, draw it in, gulp it down, swallow it.
3 - Spiegel 采访 Ivan Krastev
"Putin Lives in Historic Analogies and Metaphors"
Krastev: If you’ve been in power for 20 years in an authoritarian state, nobody dares to contradict you anymore. You have established a system, you have become the system yourself, and you can’t imagine that the entire country doesn’t reflect that. You also can’t imagine there being anybody who could be an adequate successor. So, you have to solve all problems yourself for as long as you are alive. For Putin, Russia has long since ceased being a country in the standard sense; it is a kind of historic, 1,000-year-old body.
...
DER SPIEGEL: Why does he do such things?
Krastev: Because he wants to teach us a lesson. Because he wants to tell us: I have learned from you. Even if that means doing exactly that for which he hates us. On that evening in Sochi, he expressed outrage that the annexation of the Crimea had been compared with Hitler’s annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938. Putin lives in historic analogies and metaphors. Those who are enemies of eternal Russia must be Nazis. And so, he was quick to portray the conflicts in the Donbas as a genocide. Putin’s overstatements became so extreme that they no longer had any connection to reality. He has become hostage to his own rhetoric.
...
DER SPIEGEL: The Russian middle class could radicalize, either against or in favor of Putin.
Krastev: During the pandemic, I traveled quite a bit. There is nothing more depressing than these empty airports. Now, the war is bringing people into the streets. Ukrainians, who are fleeing. Europeans, who are demonstrating. And there is one video from Moscow that shows a huge crowd of people in front of IKEA, taken on the last day before it closed. They all wanted to go shopping one last time. Shopping at IKEA is part of their lifestyle, something that distracts them from the authoritarian reality just as do trips to Germany, ski vacations in Kitzbühel and summers spent on the Mediterranean.
DER SPIEGEL: They were part of the global middle class. They wanted to live nice lives and travel like everybody else.
Krastev: And suddenly, it’s like an island separating from the mainland and sinking into the ocean. And nobody knows if there is a way back. The changes they are experiencing are not trivial. They know that it will take a long time, if at all. That is the difference between the pandemic and the war. There were justified hopes that once the pandemic came to an end, the old normal would return. But after this war, there will be a realization that there is no old normal. And the Russians? They will hardly be able to say that it wasn’t that bad and that nothing tragic happened. There could be a cease-fire or maybe even a peace treaty, but will the West remove its sanctions? Will the people of Europe forget that the pharmacies here in Vienna were sold out of iodine for several days? Our world has changed. We used to be in a postwar world, now we are in a prewar world. That is the change, and it is taking place in people’s heads.
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