Dialogue with American Immigrants: There is no grass anywhere in the world | Wai Lu · CU

Preface

As connections at home and abroad become closer, and as the economic level of the domestic middle class improves, "going abroad" is no longer a fantasy. When more people begin to include "study abroad" or "immigration" into their own or their children's career plans, and when more people are able to go abroad, what will be waiting for them? In this issue of Weiluo Dialogue, CU Weiluo is honored to invite two Chinese-American professors. They are native Chinese and the first generation of Chinese immigrants to the United States in their families. Each of them has made achievements in their own fields, they all chose to go abroad, and in the end, they all chose to stay in their "foreign land". Why did they go to the United States? What is life really like in the United States? As Chinese, how do they integrate into the local community? Although this short interview of several thousand words cannot outline all of their years in the United States over the past few decades, it can at least present part of their story.

Respondents:

Ms. Ping is from Nantong, Jiangsu. Graduated from the Sociology Department of Sun Yat-sen University and received a PhD from the Chinese University of Hong Kong. He is currently a tenured professor in the Department of Sociology at Spokane Falls Community College in Washington State, USA. is a member of the Washington State Asian and Pacific American Affairs Commission representing Spokane County. I love to record my thoughts in words, and I also like to play badminton and Tai Chi.

Mr. Zhou is from Jiangxi. Graduated from the Department of Computer Science of Jiangxi University and received a PhD from City University of Hong Kong. Currently serves as the associate dean of business at Eastern Washington University in Washington State, USA. He loves playing badminton and currently serves as the chairman of the Spokane Badminton Association.

Furnace = Wu Zixuan

Ping = Ms. Ping

Zhou = Mr. Zhou

Part I: Origin

Furnace | Before coming to the United States, what were your plans for the future?

Ping｜ At that time, I just wanted to go to graduate school and learn something in the sociology major. I was an undergraduate student in the 1986 grade, and the sociology program at Sun Yat-sen University had just resumed that year. At that time, I had an undergraduate teacher who was a graduate student at the Chinese University of Hong Kong. He encouraged me to further my studies and became my recommender, so I went to the Chinese University of Hong Kong to study for postgraduate studies in sociology. At that time, I had no idea of ​​going abroad. I had the idea of ​​going abroad when I was studying for my master's degree and Ph.D. The books I read at that time were more "critical thinking about China", which made me invisibly "look up" at the United States and Western society, or to put it bluntly, I can use the word "admiration". That is to say, he was invisibly led to the idea of ​​worshiping foreign countries.

Zhou | Actually, I don’t have any plans. I went to study in 1996 because Rosie's mother went to the Chinese University of Hong Kong first. I was teaching at Sun Yat-sen University, and at that time a doctorate was required, so I went to study for a doctorate. At that time, the Information System program at City University of Hong Kong was very strong, so I went there. In 1997 or 1998, I went to the University of Arizona as an exchange student and stayed there for less than a semester. At that time, there were several American professors at City University of Hong Kong. They put my resume online. Because information systems were very popular at that time, several schools invited me to apply (for a doctoral degree). So I went to the United States for an interview and chose my current school (Eastern Washington University). I didn’t have any expectations at the beginning. I just wanted to increase my experience. I thought that five or six years would be enough, so I didn’t have any plans.

Hearth｜ Have you been to the United States before immigrating? How did you come up with the idea of ​​immigrating to the United States?

Ping | When I was studying for a master's degree at the Chinese University of Hong Kong in 1995, I served as an international exchange student for one semester and went to Honolulu, Hawaii. I took a trip to Los Angeles, Chicago, and Washington, DC. At that time, many graduate students in science and engineering at Chinese University were targeting the United States. Hong Kong is like a springboard. After getting a degree there, you can study for a postdoctoral degree in the United States or go to the United States to find a job. That was 1995 and 1996! In the late 1990s, going to the United States was still a relatively popular thing, and everyone studying in Hong Kong would be affected by this idea and trend. Several of my roommates are planning to go to the United States, and it feels like going to the United States is a natural thing. I don’t care what’s ahead, I just want to have a go. I also yearn for the natural environment in the United States. I really wanted to live in a log cabin, and I preferred a primitive and natural living environment. I felt that China at that time was more materialistic. Perhaps my view of China was relatively blind at that time. Another idea is that China could only have one child at that time, which was too restrictive. But these are all reflections now. I didn’t think about these issues before. So I attribute it (the decision to immigrate) to an invisible admiration for the West (such as the way of doing knowledge) during the graduate stage. But my current personal experience also lets me know that American society is not what I originally thought.

Zhou | The first time I came to the United States was as an exchange student at the University of Arizona. Actually, I didn’t apply to work in the United States on my own initiative. At that time, there were very few Ph.D.s in information systems, and they were being recruited all over the world. A professor from City University of Hong Kong helped me put things online and gave me a letter of recommendation. So I have no plan. After American University gave me an offer, I thought about coming out to gain more experience and experience, and then return to Sun Yat-sen University. After coming to the United States, I faced a problem: my children were in the United States, so it was difficult to go back to China to go to school. So I said "look again, look again" and stayed.

Part II: American Life

Furnace｜ What differences/surprises did you encounter after you actually came to the United States? Have the expectations and assumptions previously held for the United States been realized?

Ping｜ When I came here, I didn’t know it would be so difficult to find a job. Only after I came here did I realize that it is very difficult for people with a degree in sociology to find a job here. Spokane is a medium-sized city with over 400,000 people. Rosie's dad teaches at a four-year college. I also applied for some jobs at that time, but there was no response or I was rejected directly. I remember that a university in the south also wanted me, but it meant that I had to leave my husband and go to a southern state, which was not realistic. When I came to the United States, I had not yet completed my Ph.D., so I focused on writing my doctoral thesis. After I finished writing it, I returned to Hong Kong to defend it. At that time, I had Rosie (my youngest daughter). I was very happy to have my second child at the time, thinking that my eldest son would have a sister, but at the same time, I was still thinking about finding a job. After all, I have a Ph.D., so I don’t want to be a housewife. In fact, this is my prejudice against housewives. This is a result of my reflection over the past few years: my education at a Chinese university would not have made me appreciate the lifestyle of a stay-at-home mother.

It was not easy to find a job at that time. In fact, I went back to work at CUHK for a while. In 2004, the Department of Sociology at CUHK offered me the position of associate professor. When I was at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, I published many academic articles in the best sociology journals in China, so CUHK recognized me more. I carried Rosie, who was less than three years old, to Sun Yat-sen University. My husband and son stay in the United States. It was difficult to have families in two countries, and Rosie was not in good health, so I quit my job at Sun Yat-sen University and returned to the United States with Rosie. That was a very painful decision. At that time, I was teaching gender sociology to the class of 2002 students at CUHK. Those classmates liked my teaching methods very much, so they were reluctant to leave. These are all gaps. I could put my sociology degree to use in China, but when I returned to the United States, I faced difficulties finding a job. Looking for a job is also full of twists and turns. It took me three times to apply for the current tenure-track position. I originally had no particular desire for two-year schools like community colleges, but my experience of finding a job in the United States made me realize that it is really not easy to find a teaching position, especially for a Chinese teaching sociology in the United States. This situation. There are many Chinese teaching computer science or business in the United States, but sociology is very different from other subjects. Sociology needs to offend, offend other people's thoughts, and touch some painful topics that you must reflect on, which will make people feel that they are The soul is undergoing torture. Therefore, in the process of teaching sociology in the United States, I suffered a lot. I can have a good life and a good reputation in China. Sun Yat-sen University is also one of the best universities in China, while community colleges are looked down upon by Chinese professors who teach at four-year universities. However, at community college, I saw a richer layer of society, and my students taught me a lot, so I think the old saying about gains and losses is true. I have some experiences that are very different from those at a four-year college. A different angle.

Zhou | I didn’t know much about the United States before. I stayed as an exchange student for a semester in 1998 and traveled a bit myself. At that time, I was still impressed by the infrastructure and accommodation conditions in the United States. In 1997, I went to Switzerland for a conference and saw the scenery and architecture there. Later, I also went to Norway and Germany for conferences, which gave me some understanding of foreign lifestyles and environments. I am relatively moderate and happy-go-lucky. I can see the strengths of a place in one place, so I don’t say which place I have to go to. Before coming to the United States, I had some expectations, but I also knew that there would be some trade-offs. After all, there were language and cultural issues. Fortunately, my research is in the technical direction, so I still focus on technology, my own research and teaching, so some cultural things have little to do with my work. Of course, now that I have been a department chair and vice dean for many years, I have a better understanding of the culture here, and I feel that there are similar places with people.

Furnace | What impressive experiences have you had during the process of integrating into the local society?

Ping｜ Because I speak English with an accent, and most of the students in the university are local students. A lot of them hadn't been taught by teachers of color, and they didn't quite understand my English accent, so it was a big shock to them. There may be people of color in the school, but there are still very few Asians. The place is predominantly white, with only 10% non-white. In many local high schools, if there are 1,600 students in a school, there may only be 2 black students, 2 Hispanic students, and 1 Asian student. In other words, they have only seen these few people in the four years of high school. color. When I went to teach, I was under a lot of pressure because I had never taught before and I was pregnant with Rosie. In the teaching evaluation at the end of the semester, there is an open question: What do you like about this teacher, or how do you think he can improve his teaching. So many students wrote, "Oh my god, this teacher doesn't understand what she's saying!" It breaks my heart. When I was at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, my classmates from Hong Kong all said, "Ping, you speak English very well, with a cockney accent." I went to Hawaii as an exchange student, and I had to go through a selection process, so I didn't think my English was that bad. It was only after reading the students’ feedback that I realized that my English was so difficult to understand. But there was a Vietnam War veteran in the class who said, "Ah, I really didn't expect that my social studies teacher was an Asian, a Chinese." In fact, I was a little moved when I said it today. Another student is an old man in his sixties. He told his family: "I have a teacher she is a Chinese." They gave me confidence that as a Chinese, I could also teach sociology, even though it was indeed difficult. There was another female student, I still remember her name, Dorothy. She gave me a thank-you card at the end of the semester, and she said, "Thank you, Dr. Ping, for teaching me." She She said she got divorced when her daughter was two years old. I couldn't help crying when I saw this. This student's life is difficult.

Many people look down on these community college students and say they go to community college because they don’t have lofty goals. But what I want to say is that kind people can be found everywhere, and they have taught me a lot. There is no grass everywhere." All people are malleable as long as they want to learn. Compared with myself who came from Guangzhou 20 years ago, I have indeed changed a lot. The school also teaches how to practice equity in teaching, so my thoughts were washed away like rice, and many of my original concepts were washed away. It was a rebirth for me.

Furnace | Outside of work, do you have any impressive experiences in the local community?

Ping｜ I have two children, and they were required to be able to read and write Chinese compositions. This is very rare in our small city. When I was the principal of a local Chinese school, I put a lot of energy into local Chinese education. I also served as the president of the local Chinese association, whose task was to promote traditional Chinese culture, such as celebrating the New Year. When my two children were young, I devoted a lot of time and energy to the entire Chinese community.

By the time my son went to college, my own status was also changing, from immigrant to U.S. citizen (in 2015). I joined the National Association of the Advancement of the Colored People. This was an organization organized by two sociologists to help black people improve their status in society. At that time, I paid more attention to social justice, not just spreading Chinese culture. At that time, an incident occurred in the local area: a black man was beaten to death by a white man from a distance of thirty feet (9 meters) from behind. The white man said it was self-defense, and the jury acquitted the white man. This incident angered the local black community and also made people of colors who are not black feel unfair. The Spokane Community Against Racism/SCAR was established locally. In 2020, George Floyd was kneeled to death. Rosie was sympathetic to the plight of black people of color, so she and her brother drew their own signs on the ground. Her brother painted a portrait of George Floyd with a dragon around his neck, which took three or four hours to complete. I also wrote a sign, “Asian Americans support BLM.” We went to a rally with thousands of people in Spokane to rally for George Floyd. The local Chinese community has a WeChat group of more than 400 people. In the group, I found that the Chinese community was very disgusted with us participating in the parade and did not want us to support the black rights movement. This is the attitude within our Chinese community: an anti-black sentiment. The way I participate in this community is definitely related to my major, and I will pay close attention to these things. There are two types of sociology, one is to be neutral, which means don’t take a stand, just do research and let the data speak; the other is to be a social activist, who has a position of his own and knows which side he should go to. When should you support someone and not be silent, because silence means supporting the other side. For me, there is nothing to argue with the tragic death of this black man, but many local Chinese people feel that George Floyd deserved it because he was an ex-criminal. But I think even if he is an ex-criminal, we cannot strangle him to death like a chicken. We can use legal means! This general apathy introduced me to a new side of the Chinese community. Later, in the Georgia State Atlanta Shooting in 2021, six Asian women were shot to death by white youths with submachine guns. Locally, Rosie and her peers, along with my peers and I, organized a candlelight vigil to commemorate the victims of Asian hatred in Atlanta. We only have a few days to prepare. They were shot on Tuesday, and we held a local rally on Saturday. There were more than 400 people there, including some Chinese people. No one shared anything positively in the public WeChat space, but someone wrote a note (journal) complaining about the Asian accent of the person who spoke in the cold wind! I was thinking about what kind of top students China education is educating. Our top students have no sympathy for black people and choose to avoid social justice for the reason of "not wanting to be too political." I think there is something worth reflecting on in China’s education. So not only am I engaging with the community, I’m also trying to reflect. We have an obligation to reflect on the limitations brought to us by our own culture.

There is a Chinese-American student at Yale University, Ailin Huang, who studies English language and literature. At that time, she was in a relatively affluent, middle-class (higher-middle-class) town and saw that many Chinese people chose to remain silent on the matter of George Floyd, so she wrote "A Letter to the Chinese-American Community" (A Letter to the Chinese-American Community). Chinese American Community), calling on everyone to support George Floyd. She said that her parents usually did not allow her to make friends with black people or participate in social justice activities for black people because "black people grew up in bad communities." Anti-blackness is a common phenomenon in the Chinese community. Ailin Huang calls on us to join other people of color in supporting black people. Because black people have made many contributions to civil rights in the United States, we should not forget our roots. The article sparked outrage among many of her parents' generation because they felt it hit home. Some public accounts criticized Ailin Huang in return. She was a junior at the time. Later, many of her peers went from supporting her to abandoning her. At first, her peers thought it was a very fashionable thing, but this support was not sincere. Later, because the process was difficult, they all abandoned her. She became depressed.

Therefore, our experience is not unique in the United States. Although I feel very lonely here, for the whole country, there is another Ailin Huang. This is a big struggle for myself. My own mental health will be affected. However, there is no way I can force others to think the same way I do. I feel like my training in sociology will put me on this path, but that may not necessarily be the case for others. But Rosie understands it very well. She later became the vice president of their high school’s Black Student Union, but she didn’t have a drop of black blood. There were black people in their school who questioned why an Asian was leading their club. The club advisor at the time said, " Rosie won everyone's votes with her heart. You don't have to be black to be the vice president of a black club. If there is a problem with a Hispanic, Rosie will also We will appeal for them. This is true solidarity, which takes social justice as the core. Whenever something happens to any group, we should appeal for them. When people in your own community roll their eyes at you, Attack you and say that when you turn your elbows out, you will lose them and you will be lonely, but that is the price of solidarity. " These were the words of the community administrator. His words gave me a lot of encouragement and inspiration. He said, "Ping lost a lot of acquaintances and friends in the community because of this, but this is the price of solidarity. When you want to be solidarity with black people, you have to be prepared, you will end up like this." My The “end” is not good. But these are my values. It would be equally difficult to change my values ​​as a result. This is my struggle.

Part III: To the Back Wave

Furnace | Nowadays, many young people have the idea of ​​studying or living abroad. To use an Internet vocabulary from some time ago, it is "run". What do you want to say to these young people who want to go abroad/immigrate?

Ping｜ I am not qualified to give advice to others. Everyone has their own values. Many things can only be understood after coming here. It's because I came here that I learned a little about what's going on in the United States, such as what the American education system is like.

The United States is the largest colonizer, and it can make so many people yearn for it. This in itself is very successful, and it is a better manifestation of spiritually controlling everyone. But I also believe that the rise of China will give the United States a lot to think about. The young Americans in the SCAR organization that I have come into contact with highly admire China's socialist path. They are really thinking: Why is China so admired by American young people? They admire Mao Zedong very much because he said "all imperialism is a paper tiger." The United States is imperialism, and now there is actually a country saying that it does not buy the blame of imperialism. This is also a great spiritual liberation for them. They are fed up with the model of rich people becoming president here, so when they see people from civilian backgrounds in China have the opportunity to become president, they feel that China is a promising society. However, many people in China who want to "moisten" will not think of this. I want to tell them that there are actually a group of people in the United States who are seriously studying countries like Cuba and China that are following the path of socialism. The United States does allow all kinds of ideas to develop. Organizations that dare to speak against the government (such as anti-war organizations) exist legally. The good thing about America is that there are people who dare to criticize it, and these people are a group of people who truly love America. If I come to the United States, I think I should try to become such a person. Also, an issue that no one from China can avoid is the struggle of identity. "Who are we?" is a more obvious question for Rosie's generation. This is also a question that those who want to "moisten" need to think about.

Zhou | Ten years ago, quite a few of my classmates had children who studied in the United States. There are also many Chinese international students in the university where I study. Regarding the issue of immigration, it mainly depends on the personality of the child. Studying abroad is definitely a kind of exercise. After this kind of exercise, most international students have different views on society, gratitude to their parents, and attitudes towards life. If you come to study in college, it is easy to integrate here because you are young (age) after all. The United States has developed first for so many years, and you can make full use of the favorable conditions here. But it is not a country dominated by Chinese people, so your lifestyle or demands are different from those in China. (About "Run" or "Run" to go to the United States) The pros and cons are equivalent to whether you want to go back to the small county town or go to Guangzhou after you graduate from a small county town and finish college. In a small county, your life is convenient, you have many connections, and you have a better chance of being promoted. You may be one of the many people in Guangzhou, but you may feel the benefits of Guangzhou’s environment , such as children’s education. I feel this is similar (to the issue of immigration to the United States). The difference is that after all, the political environment and racial environment are different. So it still depends on the person.

postscript

“Study abroad”, “live in a foreign country”, “immigrate abroad”, these words make people think. They represent going to a new environment, facing new things, and interacting with new people. Brand-new things are always exciting and desirable, but Teacher Ping and Teacher Zhou revealed the mixed feelings behind "new". How do you find your place in a less inclusive community? How to stick to your beliefs amidst the trend of others? The decision to immigrate may be a well-thought-out decision, or it may be out of necessity, but let go of the admonitions of "should" and "shouldn't" and look at it. No matter where we are, what we need is the courage and courage to face life and the belief that "the end of the world" There is no grass anywhere” open-mindedness and kindness.

Interview｜Wu Zixuan

Written by Wu Zixuan

Reviewer｜Tong Busi

Picture｜From the Internet

Editor | Wu Junhong

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