Erotic underwear should be like a good foreplay | Bitch FM Issue 162

There is a big bag in my closet that contains 20 sets of sexy lingerie and 50 pairs of fishnet stockings.

They witnessed my youthfulness, shyness, and longing when I first discovered the taste of lust a few years ago... So I moved to three cities with them and couldn't bear to throw them away.

But I know I will never wear them again. Because wearing it is like playing a plastic doll, a role waiting to be taken off.

This issue has completely subverted my understanding of sexy lingerie.

A good sexy lingerie,

To help us communicate with our bodies,

Complete the foreplay we wanted.

The guests in this issue are Huahua, the founder of COUNANA, the original sexy lingerie brand, sexy lingerie designer, and Xiao Xiong, the brand’s chief operating officer.

We talked about our first experiences with sexy lingerie, and found that from a female perspective, the mission of sexy lingerie is to accompany foreplay.

The two guests were full of energy. When I was editing the program, I was so inspired by the atmosphere that my mouth was raised. There were many points in the program that were not sorted out here, including the "wild free-range chicken" that made me laugh for three days.

🎙️Anchor

Niao Niao, an erotic relationship counselor and the host of the "Follow Niao Niao Redevelopment" community

🎙️Guests:

Huahua, COUNANA founder and sexy lingerie designer

Xiao Xiong, Chief Operating Officer of COUNANA brand

1. Erotic lingerie designer Huahua: Women’s sex appeal is diverse.

Huahua: I majored in fashion design as a graduate student. I once created a men’s clothing brand, and later worked as a resident designer for a women’s clothing store. During that time, I gained some understanding of the female body.

When I was working as a ready-to-wear designer, a friend asked me if I would be interested in making sexy underwear together. I was very curious. He is a top student at Cambridge. Why would he think this product is useful? Later, I did a lot of research and found that most of the sexy underwear on the market, the "sexy" expression, or the shooting posture, made me quite uncomfortable.

The relationship with my ex at that time was not very happy, and then I discovered that women’s self-pleasure is really important in intimate interactions. So I want to design sexy underwear from the perspective of my own understanding. We abandoned many of the direct exposure methods on the market and reorganized the design, bringing some of the design language from ready-made clothing into the design of sexy underwear, making it wearable.

I also don’t want to emphasize some feminine features. I think women's sexiness is actually very diverse, including the back, collarbone or ankles. I hope it will be more exposed like this, so that both parties can appreciate each other equally.

The underlying logic is that I hope everyone will look at sexy lingerie normally and regard it as something very common in our lives.

2. Bear and Bird’s first experience with sexy lingerie

Niaoniao: Just now Huahua talked about how many sexy underwear on the market are photographed, and I immediately had a picture in my mind - a girl with W-shaped legs sitting on the bed, which will highlight some of the sexual characteristics of the female body. , much like a sex doll.

Huahua: Much like a small animal. Turning women into mere ornaments makes me particularly uncomfortable. In fact, I think sexy lingerie can be worn by both men and women. Interest itself is a product of self-pleasure. It should be an interesting thing and a sense of ritual.

Xiao Xiong: Looking back at the first time I came into contact with sexy underwear, my own feeling is that at that time I felt a little forced to please. I would be embarrassed to look in the mirror and feel that this dress was not in my aesthetic system, but I did it for pleasure. Need to wear it.

It’s like the person in the intimate relationship is a director, and I’m just an actor. I have to cooperate with him to complete the script he wants. As for my feelings during this, I can put it aside for the time being.

Even at that moment I would acquiesce: Wow, so this is sexy. I would acquiesce without thinking about it. In fact, I think this process is a process of turning the male gaze into a standard.

But now my mentality towards this matter has changed, including experiencing more interactions and meeting more people, and I have started to explore myself.

Niaoniao: In fact, I used to be an actor in the eyes of the director, and for a while I was very proud of "I am a good actor." The other party may not ask me, but I will buy a lot of sexy underwear myself, with many colors and styles. I also want to know what kind of atmosphere different patterns match, and what kind of relationship they suit.

Why should I buy this costume? Because it is one of my rituals, and what I like is an interactive atmosphere. The previous interaction is actually very important for women, because sexual arousal for most women requires a relatively long process, so I care about that atmosphere. , I want to make such a match, I can even choose music, bring wine, I can bring cakes and so on.

But my feeling at that time was that the other person only took one look at it, and his next move was to tear it off quickly.

Little Bear: The result seems to be the same every time, that is, the play has no content.

Niaoniao: Ha, this one is easy to tear, and that one is not easy to tear, maybe that’s just the way it is.

And I actually had a bad experience wearing it before. Its design was quite inhumane, and it didn’t even have a size. The size was for models.

Little Bear: Those kind of clothes seem to only exist for a perfect figure.

Niaoniao: It’s the person who designed it. The key points they want to highlight are only those with figures like models. Ordinary people don’t have such “key points” to highlight. I often get sulky when I can't put them on. The other person may be waiting outside, and you are struggling with the pair of fishnet stockings inside, sweating profusely.

Why do I recall this passage? I recently saw a particularly great quote, which said that women are atmosphere animals. Wow, I thought, yeah, that totally explains why I go to prepare for this stuff.

I went to prepare, actually hoping to increase the content of our communication and interaction and add an atmosphere, but the process still did not achieve my purpose, and the other party did not get it. Because the way you present it to him highlights your sexual characteristics, and the other person has nothing else to boast about.

I still have a lot of sexy lingerie left over from those days in my closet. It would be a bit reluctant to throw it away, but it would have a sense of shame.

3. From a designer’s perspective, how do you understand “interest” and how do you view the female body?

Huahua: I understand taste as the mood and fun of life, which itself is a product of pleasure.

When I was customizing women's clothing and measuring their bodies, I found that every girl's figure was very different. Some girls would ask me to make them slimmer. My legs are relatively short. Can you help me make some modifications? Or my breasts are not very big, can you help me make something suitable for my breast shape? In fact, many girls are not that confident about their bodies, and they also want to make some modifications. I don't think there is any problem with this.

Back to sexy underwear, I feel that the sexy underwear on the market is more about "seduce", but I don't like the way women are treated as weak and turned into little animals. You also mentioned that the prelude to the girls' meeting takes a long time, and I will try my best to cherish the moment I spend with you. Sometimes, if you are not confident about your body, you will feel insecure.

Xiaoxiong: Actually, I was talking to Huahua about this recently. She had discovered that many girls have insecurities about their bodies, so when designing, she will do it with the intention of helping everyone communicate better with their bodies. Making designs. For example, for some clothes, you have to tie the waist and laces yourself. You can tie them tighter, or you can lift the straps up a little to create a high-waisted design (for modification). These are made through a very small point, but girls will feel so safe when wearing them.

Niaoniao: Huahua said that atmosphere is a thing of the moment, and Xiaoxiong said that she is insecure about the body. These two points really touched me. I finally understand why I still have them in my closet and can’t bear to throw them away, because in fact you are I cherish that feeling of budding lust and cherish that memory.

But why do I also have a strong sense of shame about them?

What struck me most about Huahua's words was: "Interest is a kind of relationship", and I thought, "Interest should first be a relationship with oneself, and secondly, a relationship with the other person."

When I was buying those sexy underwear, I ignored my relationship with myself and my own feelings. What I think more about is how attractive I want to be to him, how dazzling I want to be, and catch his eyes at once, but in fact, I will hold back my discomfort when getting along with those sexy underwear. Comfortable, that is, I have to suck my stomach, or I am worried that the breasts are too big for it to hold, so I have to be careful.

Amid all kinds of embarrassments, I didn't enjoy the process, and I actually didn't identify with the role, so I carried a sense of shame during the process and ignored my own feelings. I didn’t think about my “relationship with myself.” It's just that I didn't realize it at the time.

Huahua: Actually, I think we all have these experiences, and what we can’t throw away are those memories of ignorance and longing for growth. I think those fragments should actually be preserved. Girls all have this kind of growth process. In fact, these are just like being reluctant to throw away but feeling that you will never wear them again. It is the kind of youthful moment. It is because it is immature and youthful, so it is beautiful, even though it makes us uncomfortable, including you. It may make you feel uncomfortable or what the material is like, but it is a growing process and is actually very beautiful.

Niaoniao: Yes. When I talk about the past, I will often criticize it from the current perspective, but maybe even though there were various discomforts at the time, there are also parts of that time that are worth cherishing.

I just heard you say, "Why do we want to do this scene? Actually, we want to be loved." I want to say today that slowly we have changed from the kind of "eager to catch your eyes and become an actor appreciated by you" to "I want to tell you who I am and what I need, rather than waiting for you to love Me", such a process of growth.

4. Underwear is worn outside, and women begin to decide how to express their bodies.

Niaoniao: Nowadays, everyone’s clothes are very diverse, and when I open Douyin, I can show myself to the world right away. In the past, maybe we all thought that I am a very small self, which means that if you want to enter a relationship, that is where you belong. But now everyone has mastered it, saying that I can show it, and then I can show it to the surroundings, and then I can show it to Chen Shijie. Who I am is defined by myself, and who I am has become incomparable. important.

Little Bear: Yes. Well, the blessing of technology allows us to hear different feedback from different objects on different platforms, and use this to see ourselves, and then complete an exploration of who we are. display, to the process of interacting with the outside world.

Huahua: Nowadays, people are paying more and more attention to themselves, from other-gaze to self-gaze.

Xiaoxiong: For a while, we will show the effect of our clothes and upper body in the live broadcast. This process is also a process of communicating with other people's eyes, and then we will also find that although there are still many very male-right speeches, in my opinion It seems that after a deeper understanding of yourself, you will only find it funny when he says such things, and you won’t have any doubts about yourself, they just live in a world where they are ridiculous .

Niaoniao: Well, many men may not realize that when we talk about "interest", we are no longer talking about "male interest".

Especially when we women make choices, what we express is the taste in our own eyes. When some people make sexy lingerie the kind of outerwear design, or as a single product to match on the street, it is completely related to myself, and it is not related to a specific man or a specific person. Object related.

Many men are unaware of this change, and may still be under the illusion that they are a subject, but in fact, no one is listening to what he said.

5. The “grey space” in clothing: whether you want it or not, it’s up to you.

Niaoniao: Will Huahua and Little Bear wear their own underwear?

Huahua: I know how to wear it. Last time we went to Egypt together, we wore clothes made by ourselves. The one I gave you was worn by ourselves. When we went to the Egyptian temple, the sunlight was very strong. It was really comfortable to wear, and it was very breathable. Because it contains Tencel, it feels very comfortable. There's no shame in that kind of direct sunlight at 40 degrees.

Bear: We also play at the beach in Egypt, and sometimes we need to go to a restaurant to eat. When transitioning from the beach to a slightly crowded indoor, we will wear this piece of clothing over the bikini.

Huahua: I like architecture very much. There is a word in it called "gray space". Gray space is a transitional space that connects the internal environment and the external environment. Bear mentioned just now that I was a bit embarrassed when I was wearing a bikini and going to eat, but I put on our clothes as an intermediary, that is, as a "grey space on clothing", whether it is dining or sunbathing. Good, it will make me feel safe.

When we were in Egypt, this scene also touched us deeply, that is, it was presented as a gray space on the clothing, and it was also a very good scene.

Little Bear: Yes, you will actually be attracted when you feel the eyes of people around you. If they are not so naked, they will be attracted instead, because they often see a lot of very naked, for example, all the girls on the beach are three-pointed, but a lot of eyes are cast on us.

Niaoniao: The "grey space" that Huahua mentioned, actually I feel that your design style is very similar to "grey space in relationships", because it is a female self-expression, saying that I am going to enter this atmosphere, It didn’t reach the battlefield of lust directly, so it created this kind of gray space atmosphere.

Huahua: This is very true. I have been thinking about what is the positioning of my sexy lingerie. In fact, I was also confused, because the products I made may not be so "seductive". Then one day I was sitting in front of my house, looking at the river, and it suddenly occurred to me that what I was doing was actually foreplay! I think it is really beautiful. It is the front-end that gives girls a sense of security, gives girls confidence, and allows girls to show their attractiveness. I suddenly became enlightened.

Niaoniao: Well, that kind of attraction is to say, "I'm here, and it's up to me whether I can take it or not."

Little Bear: It's not the kind of clothes that are written with the language of "Take me off quickly", but the kind of clothes that are written with the language of "You are welcome to ask me questions". Wow.

Niaoniao: What Little Bear says is actually giving the other party a choice and a loopback. When I have put on a particularly revealing outfit and say, "If you don't have sex with me, you're going too far," then the other person will be under a lot of pressure and feel like I have to get hard right away. Perhaps, it is not just women who need gray space. Men may also be nervous, and they may also need a process of arousal and communication.

So I see your overall shooting style, which is relatively elegant and has room for maneuver. It expresses attraction but is not aggressive or offensive. It is a feeling that vaguely combines "respect" and "attraction".

This kind of attraction, from the perspective of a clothing design, actually has a mission, which is to guide where your eyes should focus.

I would like to hear how Huahua does this. I can use a specific work you designed as a case.

Huahua: Then let me talk about the furball style. There is a fur ball on the zipper on the chest.

I am a rather stubborn person, and there are many hair balls on the market that are placed behind girls’ buttocks. I don't like it very much.

Little Bear: The most important thing is that sitting or lying down will hurt your buttocks, which is very uncomfortable.

Huahua: Yes, at that time I thought that putting the hair ball on the butt would actually make it passive, so why didn’t I make it an active design? So I had already made this dress, and I was wondering where to add the hair ball? Then add it to the front.

Niaoniao: You have to add it, right? (laugh)

Huahua: Yes, I will add it, and then I will feel like I have the initiative. It's up to you to put it on, take it off, and pull it on as you please. Then a diamond-shaped hollow was made on the waist, which nicely modified our figure with some shadows. I've tried it myself, and it works pretty well.

When I designed this piece, I wanted to say in terms of design language that girls can take more active control of their bodies. As mentioned just now, if you don’t want to have a relationship with her right now, that’s okay, just use it as a nightgown. All the atmosphere is controlled by yourself. If we want something to happen, we slowly pull the hair ball apart, which is the feeling of interaction.

Niao Niao: In fact, many women like this kind of furry things, because the feeling will bring people back to their own body feeling and connect them to your body feeling. I imagine holding it with my hands and pulling it, and the soft, wrapped feeling from my fingertips is immediately transmitted to your body.

6. The growth history of sexy underwear: from playing sexy to being aware of the body

Niao Niao: I myself have gone through many stages in terms of body expression. One stage was when I received hints from the outside world that as a young woman, you must be sexually attractive. Including when I first came into contact with feminism, I got some information that you can be more autonomous sexually, and the kind of autonomy I showed was to show my charm and attract you strongly.

But at that time I didn’t quite understand what my own needs were.

Gradually, after experiencing some things, I began to understand that the first object of lust should be myself. So I started paying attention to how my body felt.

My personal growth process is a bit similar to the entire process of female body liberation. Everyone has gone through a very ignorant and closed stage, and also experienced a desire to enter a role that is praised, and now, we have to get out of the role given by the outside world. , to find your own feelings and find your own expression.

Little Bear: I think of a sentence from your journey, "Language has gender." In the past, the formulation of rules and the definition of words, such as the definition of the word "sexy", were mostly discussed and formulated by men, so unknowingly we would conform to such standards. There is also a stage you mentioned, where you want to seduce, or want to show the sexiness under that word.

In the whole context, it seems that everyone has become accustomed to the meaning of such a word. It seems that we have never thought about what sexy is from the perspective of our own aesthetic orientation. It’s not about what others tell you is ABCD, but what you feel in your heart. Therefore, the more people express themselves in discussions like ours now, the clearer everyone will be about such an answer or the process.

Niaoniao: Yes, you just mentioned that the definition and expression of sexy may come from men, and that power is held by men.

So what exactly do we think is sexy?

I found that the parts that made me feel excited and sexy were different from those described by many people. For example, Little Bear, when you say "yes, yes", the rhythm when you speak, I think these very small things attract me. There are many subtle things like this in the interactions between people. But in the past, we saw more sexy presentations, which were things like big waves, red lips, and red high-heeled shoes that we were already tired of seeing.

Huahua: I think personality can be distinguished. Sex is a kind of attraction, the kind of aesthetic that stimulates physical feelings. Feeling, as you just said, is a very subjective sense. It all comes from you. An expression is achieved through the cultivation and exposure of this feeling since growing up. If you add the word sexy together, I think it is a game between the expresser and the receiver, but the result is not about winning or losing, but about an experience, whether it is some sensory experience of your body and mind, or it is as ethereal as a An atmosphere, or sometimes it can be embodied in a certain part, a certain sound, or a certain thing.

Little Bear: Yes, for example, some people have very nice hands. That's sexy too.

Niao Niao: Wow, I was immediately poked. You said, "The fun lies not in the result, but in the atmosphere." We had a brief chat before recording the show, and you said at the time, "Interest, it's an irrational thing." Yes, interest is a state of relaxation, which does not pursue results, rationality, controllable atmosphere or relaxation, so interest is actually very much like a gray space in life.

7. Making sexy underwear is a foreplay to accompany women.

Niaoniao: Huahua just said that the positioning of your brand is to accompany women in foreplay. I think this positioning is really great.

Huahua: I am really touched. Because many products on the market now accompany women based on process and results, many times we ignore that for girls, foreplay is actually more important. The atmosphere and emotions of foreplay must be aroused, which is actually more important (than the process and result). Then we want to provide girls with a sense of security during foreplay. This is also some of our original intentions for this brand.

Niao Niao: I think this point is particularly great. For example, when I wear this sexy underwear and go out, I am actually already doing foreplay. When I was choosing today, I had decided to treat my entire day as my foreplay, which was actually a sense of control.

How did you find this niche? It just spoke to my heart.

Huahua: It’s also because of some of my own feelings. I liked a boy very much at that time, and I felt a sense of humiliation. At that time I will buy (sexy lingerie) and wear it, and then what? At that moment I felt ashamed. Later, I dated a very good boy who respected women very much. When I interacted intimately with him, I felt respected. Including foreplay, I felt that he was very respectful to women, so I felt that way.

Little Bear: Today’s chat with you is actually the first time we have really sorted out some of our ideas. When you just said, "When I wear sexy underwear and go out, the whole day today is my foreplay." Wow, I think it is really a complete explanation for us to have this sentence today. From the perspective of the receiver or the person who wears the clothes, it is also a complete one to hear such a feedback. Feel. Well, it's done together.

I hope that as time goes by, more girls can reconstruct and expand the word "sexy lingerie" together.

(The above is part of the content. It is recommended to listen to the full program to experience the in-depth talks and hilarious scenes)

🎙️ Bitch FM

The best erotic podcast in the Chinese world

🎧 How to listen

Updated once a week

Home page: https://biaojiangfm.typlog.io

Subscribe to the show: Copy the rss feed to the universal podcast client

https://biaojiangfm.typlog.io/episodes/feed.xml

🐦 Join NiaoNiao’s community

A "wet and dry" body-Eros Internal Reference Community

🚄 Direct train to past programs

【161】 "Victim Complex" means not being able to love yourself openly

【160】 Sophie’s polyamorous relationship: My partner’s partner is my family

【159】 The more a woman rises, the more impotent a man becomes?

【155】The second mother-child sex client: It’s not as easy as Xiao Q said

【149-150】Between truth and falsehood, the story of a domestic slave (Part 1, Part 2)