[Transgender athletes: What do scientists say? 】

May 12, 2022

As part of the debate on The Sports Desk Podcast (The Sports Desk), BBC Sport interviewed two sports scientists, asking them to provide perspectives from both sides.

(Although the title is transgender, they focus on discussing male-to-female)
(Probably because the female trans male did not dominate the male group)

The pros and cons discuss a number of issues:

1. Do men trans women have an unfair advantage over women athletes?
2. Should transgender women be banned from women’s sports?
3. Should there be a separate category for trans athletes?
4. Will transgender take over the women's movement?
5. What do you think of the IOC policy?
6. What is the impact on trans athletes?
7. What will happen next?

Opinion of the Sports Law Lecturer
8. Should factors other than science be considered?

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Is there an unfair advantage? Should transgender women be banned from the women's division? Should a separate group be created? Or should the movement be more inclusive?

The discussion surrounding the participation of men and women in women's sports has divided the sports world and beyond, even drawing comments from Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

(He said transgender women shouldn't be in the women's category*)

The debate centres on the balance of inclusivity, sporting equity and safety in women's sport - in essence, whether trans women can live without their biological sex giving them an unfair advantage or threatening other competitors with harm Compete in the women's category.

As part of the debate on The Sports Desk Podcast (The Sports Desk), BBC Sport interviewed two scientists who offer perspectives from both sides.

Ross Tucker, an exercise scientist, says the physiological differences established by puberty can create "significant performance advantages (in men over women)."

Joanna Harper is an exercise scientist and transgender herself. She studies the effects of gender transition on male trans and female athletes.

Here, Tucker and Harper answer key questions being debated from a scientific perspective. You will also hear from lawyer Dr. Seema Patel that other factors must be considered, such as human rights.

1. Do men trans women have an unfair advantage over women athletes?

Harpo:
An advantage is not necessarily unfair, let me give two examples, one is that an advantage is not unfair and one is that an advantage is unfair.

In many sports, left-handed athletes have an advantage over right-handed athletes. Perhaps most notably in fencing, where 40% of elite fencers are left-handed, compared to 10% of the population.

But despite the advantages left-handed fencers have, right-handed and left-handed fencers can have meaningful matches.

However, you never put a big boxer and a small boxer in the ring, no matter how good the little boxer is. No matter how hard a little boxer works, how hard they train, how competitive they are, they can't beat a big boxer. The size difference means there is no meaningful competition between big boxers and small boxers.

So the question isn't "Do transgender women have an advantage?" -- it's, "Can transgender women and women compete with each other in meaningful competition?" To be honest, the answer is uncertain.

Men trans women also have disadvantages because their larger skeletons are now driven by less muscle mass and reduced aerobic capacity, but it's not as pronounced as the advantage of simply getting bigger.

Yes, the competition will usually be within a small gap, but in any competition there are many factors that affect the overall performance, and just saying "oh, someone has an advantage (in this one factor)" doesn't necessarily determine the outcome .

Tucker:
When boys are 13-14 years old, the body starts to change, we see an increase in muscle mass, bone density; this changes the shape of the skeleton, changes the heart and lungs, hemoglobin levels, which are important for athletic performance contributing factors.

Lowering testosterone has some effect on this, but it doesn't fully affect the system, so for the most part, whatever the biological difference in testosterone production is, persists even with lower testosterone -- or, if I put it another way, even after testosterone levels dropped.

This retains a large part of the advantage that gives men better athletic performance than women.

2. Should transgender women be banned from women’s sports?

Tucker:
The focus of the women's group was to exclude male dominance, a consequence of testosterone.

Unless it can be shown that this dominance of transgender women will not persist or exist, I would say that there is no underlying reason for transgender women to enter the women's movement.

The point of all this is that if there is no evidence at all (that the advantage does not exist), I would say that a policy of excluding men and women would be a prudent place to start.

However, we do have evidence (that an advantage exists) - we have 13 studies showing a clearly reserved advantage. We have many other studies of men with low testosterone who have prostate cancer, and we know what happens when you train, so I think the overall picture is pretty strong that the advantage is preserved.

In the end, I think this leads to the fact that over time, it's predictable that you're going to see athletes like Lia Thomas and Emily Bridges, so they're actually a concrete representation of what we know is going to happen biologically.

So, at this point, I'm pretty confident that a policy to regulate the women's movement by excluding male dominance (including G-T) is an evidence-based policy.

While it's not impossible to challenge this over time, and we can reconsider, I think [the International Olympic Committee] initially decided that "[Ms trans women can play in the women's division] until they prove they have an advantage. Exclusion" is a step backward. It should be "until it proves that there is no advantage they can participate (women's)".

Harpo:
Science is still in its infancy, and we may not have definitive answers for 20 years.

Some people, including the International Olympic Committee, have said that until we know more, we shouldn't restrict male trans and female athletes.

What I would say is that until we are sure, sports governing bodies should do what they can to use the data that is available, use the knowledge we have today, and understand that any policy they make now should continue as we get more data. Variety.

For example, World Athletics says that men trans women should be allowed in once their testosterone levels have dropped for 12 months. It's not a perfect policy - no one says it is - but World Athletics says it's the best policy we can do given the existing science.

I think it's a more reasonable approach, rather than choosing one or the other, saying we don't impose any restrictions on transgender women, or we don't allow transgender women to participate (women's group) until it's determined.

3. Should there be a separate category for trans athletes?

Harpo:
In recreational sports, we should be more creative; we can think of different divisions. Do we need to have male and female categories in every situation? Can we differentiate in other ways? Maybe there might be a third category of cases where this might be valid.

But the problem is, if you strictly require all trans athletes to be in the trans category, then you have three categories — one with 49.5%, another with 49.5%, and one with 1% .

So will the UK be able to form a transgender football team? If so, can other countries form a transgender football team? Will the UK transgender football team play?

Especially in team sports, it's nearly impossible to consider the trans category -- it doesn't apply to elite sports.

In some cases, staying flexible and moving beyond the male/female dichotomy may help.

When we divide categories, we don't necessarily eliminate edge, but we reduce edge to the point where anyone in a class can meaningfully compete with anyone else in that class.

If we want to see women win Olympic golds or get professional sports compacts, then we can't put men in that category.

Can we put men trans women who have gone through male puberty in this category? Admittedly, this is not a definite question yet.

Tucker:
This may be the future - this is where we're headed.

In some ways it would be quite a positive step, but I don't think the world is really ready for this, and I don't mean just sports.

One obvious problem is that there are so few athletes that I'm not sure they can sustain a sport, or even a category.

Another issue is that transgender still has stigma, and I'm not sure if trying to get through sports or creating a platform will help overcome that. In conclusion, there may be certain obstacles.

There are countries in the world that think (transgender) is illegal, so I'm not sure if society is ready for that, or if that's fair.

That said, I think this might be a solution at some point in the future, but I just don't think we can necessarily do it yet.

4. Will transgender take over the women's movement?

Harpo:
Gender transgender will never take over the women's sport. First, transgender people make up about 1% of the population.

The best example of population research comes from the United States. If you look at NCAA sports, more than 200,000 women compete in NCAA sports every year. Men trans women make up 0.5-1% of the population, so we should see 1,000-2,000 trans women a year.

The NCAA 11 years ago allowed men and women to compete, based on hormone therapy. We should see 1,000-2,000 people. We see a handful every year.

So, 11 years after these hormone therapy-based rules went into effect, transgender women haven't taken over the NCAA movement, and they're still woefully underrepresented.

Tucker:
The problem is concept - not size and quantity - if you ask a woman this question, they will say "Well, how many would you accept?" Would you accept 5? Will you accept 10? Does that need 50?

Recently we had a group of [male trans female athletes]. There are many others in the U.S. who may not have received global attention, but they certainly won a lot of championships in the U.S.

Again, they're displacing women in the women's sports category , so it's really dangerous to play the numbers game in my opinion, because by 2028, in the Olympics after Paris (Summer 2024), we might see Half a dozen, maybe a dozen. who knows?

This seems to be a problem that is only getting worse.

5. What do you think of the IOC policy?

New guidelines issued by the International Olympic Committee in November state that transgender women should not be assumed to automatically have an unfair advantage in women's sport, and it requires individual sports to find the right norms.

Tucker:
It is clear from the outset that the IOC intended to seek inclusion at the expense of the integrity of the women's sport .

The IOC is now in a position where they compromise further. Not arguing that (male trans female) has an advantage - an extraordinary statement now that they have more knowledge than they did 7 or 8 years ago.

So even though we know more now, as I mentioned earlier, all the evidence points to (male trans female) retaining an advantage, not to mention that they already had an advantage in the first place, the IOC is heading in that direction , saying we no longer need to measure testosterone, so the IOC has a major failure of scientific integrity.

Most Olympic sports are incapable of making decisions, let alone evidence, so I think the leadership of the IOC has failed by not giving them a stronger framework within which to execute their work.

They have adopted political guidelines that lack science, and as the problem continues to grow, now sports will have to figure out a solution.

Harpo:
The new IOC framework doesn't provide enough substance, and of course I don't agree with that without any restrictions until we have the data.

The IOC prioritizes inclusivity and I think inclusivity is valuable but I still prefer the example of World Athletics taking a more aggressive stance and they say it's what we think we should do and we know it doesn't Will be useful for all sports, but they have more leadership than the IOC, which can be criticized here.

Trying to create transgender policies is extremely challenging—you can criticize anyone's policy.

Of course I wish the IOC had decided otherwise, but it's also true that both transgender and cis-women are placed in a very difficult situation.

Sports governing bodies are also put in a very difficult situation and we should have sympathy for them too.

6. What is the impact on trans athletes?

Harpo:
I've met Emily Bridges - she's 21 years old. She is a world class athlete. She should be free to play her sport, go to college, and live a normal life.

Now, she has the weight of the world on her shoulders, the whole world is arguing about her, she's called something horrible, some people think she's a heroine, and she just wants to ride a bike, go to college, and make friends.

She was devastated by this and it was heartbreaking to see what happened to Emily.

On a personal level, it's hard to see someone you know going through this level of pain.

(Emily Bridges was originally scheduled to compete in the women's division of the British National All-Around Championships on 2022/04/22, but was rejected due to ineligibility. According to the Guardian*, Bridges is still registered as a male cyclist , so will have to wait until her current UK Cycling and UCI licences expire before competing as a woman.)
(But it could also have something to do with female cyclists boycotting him.)

Tucker:
Bridges' situation is a perfect illustration of the fact that sports are in trouble, and the reason for that is, simply put, that they don't listen to their athletes .

When it comes to talking about a single person, I sometimes get uncomfortable with the way the conversation goes, and you hear people saying they cheat on purpose; they're just trying to win women's sports or get into locker rooms, etc.

I find those - if you may even call them contributions to the debate - very uncomfortable, even unpleasant at times. I hope we can have this debate objectively and not focus on someone alone because I don't think it's fair to them who play by the rules. And those rules are the problem.

Now I don't know if this is enough to shield individuals from the consequences of their own decisions, but I do think we can have this conversation without showing A, B, C (these few). This is sometimes unpleasant.

I encourage people to debate policies more than people.

7. What will happen next?

Tucker:
The reason it's so controversial is because there isn't an ideal scenario, which is defined by making everyone equally happy.

The reality is that you can't get back fairness with low testosterone levels , so either you have to get fairness by excluding men and women , or you have to accept a degree of injustice by including women .

Sports will have to make this tough decision.

Unfortunately, sports leaders have to speak up: Do they want to include transgender women, or do they want to protect the women's category and therefore have to exclude transgender women ?

I don't see a compromise solution. It has to be an option , and I think there are movements that are already leaning that way.

Harpo:
Over the past few hundred years, the world has moved in a direction of being more inclusive of minorities, whether people of color or LGBT people… In many ways, we have come to understand that the same parts of humanity are more than our differences .

So trying to adapt to human differences is a valuable process that I hope will continue.

One of the things is that a lot of people don't actually know any trans people, so the idea that trans women are men who think they are women is not true. Transgender gender identity is such an important part that there is no way we exist to separate it.

Transgender people are who we say we are. I am a woman with a different physiology than other women, so I believe my place should be with other women.

This is something an inclusive society will acknowledge. I also admit that things are a little more complicated when it comes to sports.

My suggestion is that it is impossible to maximize inclusivity, maximize equity, maximize athletic safety, and improve one of the three without some impact on the other.

But I think we can come up with solutions that, while they may not maximize any of these three parameters, are very close to maximizing all three parameters and none of the three important parameters - inclusiveness, safety and fairness - being overly affected.

8. Should factors other than science be considered?

The Equality Act 2010 legally protects people from discrimination based on gender identity. However, there are exceptions when it comes to sports.

Section 195 of the act, which deals with sports, makes it legal to restrict transgender people from participating in sports because physical strength, stamina or physique are important factors in determining who wins, but only to ensure that the competition is fair or that other competitors is safe.

Dr Seema Patel is a Senior Lecturer in Law at Nottingham Law School. She holds a PhD in Discrimination in Sport, focusing on the regulation and balance between inclusion and exclusion in competitive sports. She has nearly 20 years of expertise in transgender athletes and specific topics in the law.

Patel:
The debate so far has been focused on science, and from my perspective, less attention has been paid to legal, regulatory and human rights factors that should also be balanced in this debate.

When sports bodies determine eligibility rules for gender-diverse athletes, such as trans athletes or those with natural gender differences, it can’t just take one factor into account, and it can’t come from science and medicine alone.

Sociologists, lawyers, scholars in the field of law and regulation, and athletes themselves must all have discussions to determine what is best and how to move forward.

The IOC's current guidance framework is groundbreaking. This is the first time an international governing body has attempted to ensure that sport is accessible to everyone, regardless of gender identity or sex variations, a history of eligibility rules for gender-diverse athletes.

We have never had guidance focused on the principles of inclusivity - not asserting superiority, dignity and respect for athletes.

A focus on human rights is necessary to ensure balance; it should not be either. They should consider each other to ensure the best results for the athlete.

So I do think it's welcome guidance, but the test will come from whether the governing body is actively engaging and adopting the goals set out in the guidance, which doesn't seem to be the case at the moment.

Science should not be a major turning point in this regard. It must also ultimately be a matter of law, regulation, sociology, athletes and human rights because these athletes are individuals.

There are some exemptions in the Equality Act and the Gender Recognition Act which allow for gender segregation on the basis of physiology and biology.

But it's worth noting that this exemption is very problematic. So the argument for excluding trans athletes based on these exemptions is, I think, very controversial and something the government needs to take into account in any future revisions to legislation.

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Replenish:

Articles related to the participation of men and women in the women's movement (in Chinese, with charts)
Dr. Emma Hilton's research and speeches on men's trans women's participation in the women's movement https://noselfidtw.cc/post/fond-of-womens-sport-dr-emma-hilton-the-science/

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Thoughts:

What are your thoughts on these issues?

My own answer is as follows:
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes. Or turn the men's group into an open group for transgender participation. But keep the physiological female group.
4. Yes, even if there are only a few men and women, there will always be only one first place. The number of entries is also fixed, and each male trans woman will squeeze out a female athlete.
5. Waste Olympic Committee.
6. Um...isn't anyone going to talk about the impact on female athletes? For example losing a scholarship? Lost the right to compete? The feeling of never winning?
7. Let's see how many women's records will be broken?
8. Considering factors other than science...are you kidding me?

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Remark

*Boris Johnson: UK PM says transgender women should not be in women's sport https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/06/sport/boris-johnson-transgender-athletes-intl-scli-spt/ index.html

*Men trans cyclist Emily Bridges banned from British National Championships after UCI ruling https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/mar/30/trans-cyclist-emily-bridges -banned-from-racing-at-british-meeting-after-uci-ruling

Original source:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/61346517