Possibly the most popular Macau official: Counting the beauty of life - Interview with former Audit Commissioner Amy Chua

This article is specially reprinted by Macao independent media "On All Media". Recently, we started to contribute to "On All" and launched a new subscription plan in cooperation with Patreon. At the same time, we reprinted selected articles from "On All" on Matters, so that readers from both sides of the Taiwan Strait can better understand Macau. social issues.

Our words: Macao people born after the 1990s may not know Cai Meili very well, but they have probably heard of the overspending of the 2005 Macao East Asian Games and the subsequent series of high-level corruption scandals. And the character interviewed in this article is the former auditor general who spread the East Asian Games incident under the sun. Interestingly, up to now, the Audit Commission is still regarded as a "toothless tiger" that is more practical. The internal problems mentioned by the former Auditor General in this interview seem to have not changed...

The most popular official in Macau

Cai Meili is a name familiar to people in Macau: not only because of her brilliant achievements in creating the auditing business in Macau, but also because of her courage and wisdom, the National Audit Office abides by the principles of independence, professionalism, objectivity and impartiality, and fulfills the supervision duties entrusted by the Basic Law. Whether the public funds of the audit target government departments are used properly, whether there are irregularities and illegalities, etc., are clearly presented through the audit report, so that the public can be informed and help supervise government financial management issues.

One of the battles that is still talked about is the ten series of audit reports on the hosting of the 4th East Asian Games in Macao, which can be called a "historical record"! To give the public a clear explanation. Leaving Australia is imminent, in addition to being busy saying goodbye to her friends, Cai Meili, who has always been low-key, was moved by "The End" and was willing to accept the interview.

Doing too well "nothing to stay low"?

It has been three and a half years since she left the Audit Commission, and Cai Meili is still mentioned from time to time. There are even more voices in the community who hope that she will run for the legislature. This is really unusual in the officialdom of Macau, where poor officials rule. When the government changed in 2009, when all the main officials collectively transitioned smoothly to the third government, only the good official Cai Meili, who was much loved by the public, actually "had nothing to be left behind". Is it because the outside world is questioning whether it is because the series of audit reports of the East Asian Games "planted the bane"? - The person in charge of the East Asian Games is the former Secretary for Social Affairs and Culture Chui Sai On, who is the current Chief Executive.

Cai Meili only responded: "In 2009, if the SAR needs me, I don't mind staying for a few more years." It is true that fairness is in the hearts of the people, and the public has its own fair evaluation. Cai Meili was nicknamed "Beautiful Sister" by the citizens, and she was even criticized. May be the "Conscience of Macau"! This is the truest honor.

Is there a "thorn" for not being re-appointed?

In Macau, there are very few officials who can be generally appreciated by the public. Sister Meimei is one of the few but outstanding people, but such a good official is not reused by the main government, and is arranged to leave the Audit Office, which was established by the first hand. Will the parties feel uneasy about this?

Reporter: The Audit Office can be regarded as your "one-handed", just like your son, but you can't continue to watch it "grow up"; is there a thorn in your heart?

Cai Meili: There must be no "thorns". Because even if I gave birth to two sons, I will not accompany them forever, especially when they get married and have their own family, they always have to learn to let go. Having worked in the Audit Office for ten years, it is actually a good thing to have a new person to take over. Every department should give the new person the main job at an appropriate time. I don't know if this is correct, or if it just happens to me, when I get old and "up and down", my brain doesn't work at all, it tells me to think of new things, it just comes and goes in myself Spin around. Therefore, it is appropriate to let new people on, because new people may bring new thinking, new impulses, and new methods to develop the work of the department better.

Reporter: It is a pity for the public that you were not retained, and people also questioned whether the series of audit reports of the East Asian Games were the trigger for your resignation? Because it is these ten reports that clearly let the public know what happened to the East Asian Games and what the serious overruns are. But it also caused the current chief executive who was in charge of the East Asian Games that year to not nominate you to the central government to continue as Auditor-General?

Cai: I cannot answer this question on your behalf, but I believe it will not be the situation you mentioned.

Endure humiliation and carry out the mission of "hate the gods and ghosts"

As the Audit Office responsible for overseeing the internal financial operations of the government, it is obviously a post that "offends" the executive branch. Especially in the early days of the establishment of the National Audit Office, many audited departments had a lot of precautions against the Audit Commission. For example, the requested information was not always complete, and the front-line auditors were even more difficult and cold-shouldered.

Cai Meili agreed with the reporter's description of the National Audit Office as a department "hated by gods and ghosts", but pointed out that this is the duty; and stressed that as a supervisor, "you must have a sense of mission"! After ten years, looking back at the indifference of some departments, Meimei thinks from the perspective of the department: "Understandable, because they may be suspicious of what you need so much information for? Is it bad for us?" . She said that the departments that have audited in the past also have friends of their own. "If they are real friends, they will understand my work."

Along the way, gradually see recognition

In order to be competent for the audit work, Cai Meili personally went to the Hong Kong Audit Office, which has a long-standing audit culture, to learn from the experience, and invited seniors from Hong Kong to come to Macao to train personnel. She recalled that in those days, "the chair was not even seated, so an annual audit of the accounts was required." The National Audit Office has also gradually grown up. The audit projects started from the account audit, and successively developed the special audit and the value-for-money audit.

After 13 years of development, Cai Meili believes that the Audit Office of Macau has made great progress. Although there is still a considerable gap compared with some advanced countries and regions, it is not inferior to many other countries. Macao’s education level is relatively high, and the current level of auditing work is not as good as it is in comparison with international standards.” She also thanked the National Audit Office for its support to the Macau Audit Commission over the years, including assisting Macau in training auditors.

There is no doubt that the series of audit reports on the East Asian Games have established the status of the National Audit Commission, and the audit work has also been recognized by the public.

Supervise others and do better yourself

Meimei humbly commented on her work, saying that her parents were strict with discipline, and she knew from a young age that she should be serious in her work. When the audit work was in a tense stage, Meimei once had a physical illness and needed an operation. The doctor said that she would need to rest for two months, but she only continued to work after a few days of rest. Reviewing audit reports one after another, she actually said, "None of them are completely satisfactory." Only the most impressive one: "It is of course the series of audit reports for the East Asian Games."

Civil servants should choose people with virtue

In the 25 years of officialdom, especially as a department leader for many years, Meimei has her own set of experience, "There are no absolutely smart people in the world, the most important thing is to have a heart... Talent is good, but morality is even more important. It's important!" Seeing that the current officialdom is in a mess, Ms. Meili expressed this feeling: "If the SAR government, especially senior civil servants, such as the director or even the director-level level, appoints these senior civil servants, in addition to professionalism and talent, in fact, morality is very good. important."

Do audit and also serve as psychological counseling

The series of audits of the East Asian Games won applause from the public, but behind it was bitterness and tears. It is reported that when auditing the East Asian Games, the auditors not only faced an unimaginably heavy workload, but even more difficult was the "headwind" attitude of the relevant departments. The front-line auditors felt uncomfortable. Injustice, even more female colleagues could not help crying. At this time, the auditor-general's role also served as a psychological counselor, reassuring colleagues and even encouraging morale. During the interview, Sister Mei also said with a smile, there was a saying back then, "In the future, instead of being a Audit Office, you can be a (psychological) counselor."

Appearance "hard and clean" is actually "little woman"

This "hard and clean auditor-general" in the eyes of people, but she is just "a little woman" (you must know that the auditor-general's position "offends many people", despite the mediocre culture of Macau's officialdom, he still does something. It is definitely not easy, but how much pressure do you want to endure). She is still a comforter during the day, but who knows that she secretly weeps at night? She revealed that during the series of audit reports on the East Asian Games, she secretly cried many times. "To be honest, the shouting for work is all caused by this, and I have never tried it before. The biggest resistance was during the audit of the East Asian Games." . Fortunately, she said that she is a cheerful person. "After a big shout, I woke up the next morning and went to work without incident."

Do you have any regrets?

"Personally, I have no regrets, because I think I've been very fortunate. I have worked in the Bureau of Statistics and the National Audit Office, and I have a group of very good colleagues who are like my children."

However, although the public and some departments have more respect for audit work, she believes that the audit culture has not really been established and matured. Among them, how the department accepts and cooperates with the audit work, "this aspect has not been fully achieved up to now." Cai Meili pointed out in particular, "solving problems is not the scope of the Audit Commission's responsibilities. Once you know what the problem is, solve it one by one.”

She said frankly that the National Audit Office should be able to play a great role, but it depends very much on the cooperation of the Legislative Council and relevant officials. But the current situation is "You have Zhang Liang's plan, he has a wall ladder." She described that some departments knew that the audit report had a problem, but felt that their reputation would be "stubborn". "How to monitor? We raised the problem, But none of them will humbly face up to the problem and make improvements.”

What touched her the most was "The Audit Office has made so many audit reports and raised problems, but how many problems have been really solved?" In this regard, Cai Meili bluntly expressed her regrets. "It's a pity that they didn't make good use of the audit report, which is the best tool to help them follow up and monitor. I don't think they paid enough attention."

I was happier when I had less money

Before the reunification, although the Macao-Portugal government had established the Court of Audit, its nature was a judicial department, and its responsibilities, functions and modes of operation were quite different from the original intention of the SAR to set up the Audit Commission. Cai Meili recalled that when she began to prepare for the Audit Commission on the eve of her handover, she "had no idea at all, and she was crossing the river by feeling the stones".

"Having experienced the era of the Macau-Portuguese government, I am very happy about the prosperity of the return. But I also felt that before the return, Macau's economy was very poor. I was already a leader at that time. At that time, the government's finances were very tight. We think too much about money and use it very carefully. We have to rack our brains every year to make a budget, and the Governor of Australia must cut expenses. Every year we take a set of budgets from the department to see the Governor of Australia and explain to him hard to win the budget. , but in the end, the amount of spending was cut. Also, the budget is already tight, but many times in the middle of the year, the government also asks the department to cut spending by another 5 or 10 percent.”

Note: When you have a tight hand, you will think clearly before you spend every money, but when you have money, you can be as generous as pouring water without thinking about it. In comparison, do you think that you are happier when you spend your money prudently and under the constraints at that time? Or is it happier to spend money indiscriminately now?

Cai: To be honest, I was quite happy at the time. Although the financial constraints were indeed hard, it would definitely achieve the purpose of using public funds effectively...

Feeling "heartache" knowing that money can be used better

When she was asked how the government of the "Ku" enemy country used its money, she unexpectedly became solemn... It can be seen that this is actually a natural reaction as a citizen who loves Macau. The government is entrusted by the citizens to manage public money, so it must guard the treasury like a loyal dog and watch the money of the people:

Reporter: As the former Auditor-General, do you agree with the view that besides the Audit Commission fulfilling its monitoring duties, it is more important for the entire government to keep the treasury?

Cai: Of course it should be done. How to keep the public money, must be from the top down. The legal system is important, but people are more important, because the law is enforced by people!

Note: The public sees that the current government revenue is abundant, but it seems to be "washing the feet but not wiping them". The situation of extravagance and corruption is quite serious. What do you think?

Cai: I was born in Macau. After the handover, Macau has been developing very well. The economic development is really fast. I should be very happy. However, just as some Members said in the Legislative Council that "people are stupid and have a lot of money", I really felt deeply after hearing this. After the reunification, the economy has developed very fast, and the SAR government has a lot of money. However, in the past ten years, I have seen how some departments spend their money through account audits, value for money audits and special audits in the Audit Commission. It will be very sad!

When asked about her opinion on the current situation, Cai Meili talked about the weather. "After 2009, the weather is really not good." There is still hope for Australia to build a civil society.

Grateful "lucky is me"

Choi was educated in Hong Kong and the United Kingdom, and received a Bachelor of Science degree in Mathematics from the University of Essex, United Kingdom, and a Master of Science degree in Statistics and Operations from the same University in 1984. In 1988, she joined the Statistics and Census Department of the Macao-Portugal Government as a senior technician. At that time, the department had to have a master's degree in statistics, and she showed great talent, so she was valued by the government, and her career progressed rapidly. In 1997, she was promoted to Statistics and Census The director of the department (the current director) is the first Chinese director of the Macau-Portuguese government. "It was my little luck," she laughed.

On the eve of the handover in 1999, the then Chief Executive invited Melissa Choi to serve as Auditor-General. "I was appreciated by Mr. Ho Hau Wah, and he invited me to be the auditor-general. She felt that auditing was not her own bank, and she was hesitant because she did not know herself and had no auditing foundation in Macao. Encourage her to accept this appointment. "My husband was working in Hong Kong. My two sons were very young at the time, the eldest was nine and the youngest was only five. In fact, I had been working in the Bureau of Statistics for a long time, so I didn't have much time to accompany me. They have to watch their homework when they come home at night." Even friends didn't encourage her to take it to the next level.

However, in the end, with the encouragement of Ho Hau Wah, she still chose to accept the challenge of the first auditor general of the SAR. "He Sheng has confidence in me, he said I can do it." She added with a smile, He Sheng laughed at the time: "Actually, statistics and auditing are only one word apart, they are almost the same thing!"

In 2009, when the government changed, Tsai left the Audit Office and became a consultant in the Office of the Secretary for Economy and Finance, but worked in the Statistics Bureau. "It was her choice to return to the Bureau of Statistics, because the Bureau of Statistics is her 'maternal home'." She described being able to participate in the 2011 census work again before retirement as the "perfect end" of her civil service career. Recalling that when she first participated in the national census of the authorities in 1991, the Bureau of Statistics was questioned "the wrong number, how could the population be so small", until the ID Bureau reissued her ID card and confirmed that the total population was consistent with the census, she laughed. Yan: "At that time, I could really say, "Return my innocence"!"

Be a "Happy Little Woman"

The heavy workload of the auditor general for ten years, and even the chance of being loyal to his duties but not being retained may be unwilling to some people; Say "I'm a pistachio" from time to time.

During the visit, Sister Mei was more than once grateful for her husband's unconditional support and her child's understanding. Cai Meili, 55 years old this year, is about to enter a new life plan. She chooses to "early retire" by leaving her job without pay from this month. She will go to the UK to accompany her young son to study, and end her career as a housewife. After twenty years After five years of public service, especially after ten years of experience as auditor general, and returning to a comfortable and ordinary family life, Cai Meili is full of vision for the future: "My husband and I will live in the UK for a little longer in the early days, two or three years, as a mum, I want more. If I can get close to my children, I will also do volunteer work. In Datong world, I can serve the society anywhere. My husband and I did volunteer work when we were studying in the UK.”

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