Dialogue with Ruin Explorer Ranpan: Beauty, Danger and Doom Dancer

Ran Pan is a full-time contributor of Chinese and English ruins exploration, freelance writer and photographer. Walk past abandoned hospitals and banks, through silent subways, into cemeteries and funeral homes. Deconstruct the rules, reconstruct the space, visit the daily life and history with the help of the architectural legacy, and use the body to measure the time and space of the city. When the timeline of reality and history are repeatedly entangled, how does she view the ruins and how to face life.

Furnace = perimeter

Ran = Ranpan

 Furnace | I would like to invite you to briefly introduce the ruins exploration culture. What brought you into contact with ruins exploration?

Of course | In fact, there is no specific time point, but I have always liked the aesthetic of ruins and the end of the world. There are two things that impressed me the most. The first is a passage from Fight Club: " In my imagined future, you hunt elk in a canyon of Rockefeller ruins; you climb up the vines outside the Sears Building; you look down, on the ground The people pounding the rice are very, very small; there are people drying venison strips on the abandoned highway ." This sentence gave me a very shocking feeling at the time. The second is that I saw a group of photos of abandoned trains on the Internet in 2014. I thought it was very beautiful and I was very fascinated, so I searched and found out what ruins exploration is. This industry is called "urban exploration" in foreign countries, and there are such a group of people who often go to the ruins to take photos and explore. At first, I searched for some abandoned playgrounds, factories, and residential houses around me, and sometimes I just stopped by to visit when I went out to play. Later, I played more and more, and I gradually learned how to play to be interesting.

 Furnace | Are there any rules for exploring the realm in ruins?

Of course | there are some very basic rules. The first is " Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints ", this is the same as the rules for tourists, you can't take things from the ruins, and you can't litter. The second is that the exact location of the ruins cannot be disclosed online . Because the very well-preserved ruins may be destroyed once they are made public online. Some teenagers like to smash and destroy very much. For example, they will smash the large stained glass windows in the ruined church. If they smash many beautiful things in the ruins, it will be a pity. In addition, some people in foreign countries like to burn things, and they may burn down the ruins, which also poses a safety hazard to the surrounding residents. That's why everyone searches for ruins on the Internet, which is difficult.

But recently I talked to a friend about these rules of ruin exploration, and he was very surprised, because the activity of ruin exploration is already in the gray area of law, but we still have to abide by these rules and regulations, and there is a feeling of setting limits for ourselves. Later, I saw some urban explorers on the Internet, and they did not strictly follow these codes. For example, there is a rule that when entering the ruins, you cannot destroy the ruins, but some people discover a place for the first time by smashing the glass in it. But people who truly respect the ruins should not do this. Therefore, the observance of these rules also depends on everyone's feelings and respect for the ruins.

 Furnace | Are there many people engaged in the industry of ruin exploration now?

Of course | More and more, there are many people who like to watch the videos and articles uploaded by urban explorers on the Internet, and some people are willing to try it in person, but actually exploring and watching are two different things. My parents are a good example. I started to tell them that I was doing this after a few years of exploring. They didn't accept it at first. It wasn't that they objected to me playing it, but they didn't understand why I was going to these places. After they saw the pictures I think it looks good in general, so that's what it is. Only later did they accept some interviews and publish articles, and they gradually began to understand the ruins exploration. But for example, the last time I went to see a snowstorm, my first text message when I came out was to tell my mother that she was safe and sent a photo. Then my mom replied "good" and sent me a photo of them going up the mountain. That mountain is not one of the five famous mountains, but a small mountain that I have never heard of. My mother said they reached the top. At that time, I suddenly realized that in their minds, my going to the blizzard and their going to this mountain that I had never heard of were similar behaviors.

[Blizzard: An abandoned space shuttle inside the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. This space shuttle from the Soviet Union's arms race period was part of the Blizzard Project, the Buran Project, built in the 1970s and 1980s and left in Baikonur after the collapse of the Soviet Union. -Ran Pan]

Once when I was exploring the United States, a good friend of mine refused to say anything to enter that abandoned church with me. That church isn't actually dangerous, but you have to climb in from the basement. She said that although it looks good to see your photos posted online, this church is too dirty. If it were a little cleaner, I could go with you. In general, the public's acceptance rate is quite high when watching ruin expedition videos and articles, but the acceptance rate is lower when they practice it in person.

One of the reasons is that this activity is dangerous, and it is relatively suitable for young people. If you are an uncle, you may not be very willing to play. Of course it's not that older people can't play. The oldest urban explorer I know is a teacher in her 60s who only got into ruin exploration after she retired. I admire her so much and wish I could be as energetic as her in my sixties. Having said that, people of the uncle generation generally have little interest in exploring ruins. I once chatted with a domestic colleague, and he said that what you wrote is quite interesting, but it is too small. If you want to write about self-driving in North America and ten days in Europe, we will immediately buy tickets to play. So I feel that most people are just watching the fun of exploring the ruins, and only one-tenth of the people who really play may be.

 Furnace | In the process of exploring the ruins, did photography bring you new perspectives?

Of course | Yes. In the first two years of my expedition, there was no photography. First, I was content to go in and take a look. Second, I was still a writer at the time, and I never thought that one day I would take a camera to photograph these things. For Christmas 2016, I embarked on my first road trip entirely devoted to exploring the ruins, bringing a small camera. When taking a photo with a long exposure, the scene will be evenly lit, but some areas will be particularly bright. So I thought, these places actually have light, so could there be other spaces above these places? Climb up two more floors and sometimes find something else.

Later, I upgraded the camera system and started taking good pictures. Most of the photos taken by urban explorers abroad are some large scenes. For example, when taking photos of an abandoned church, they will take photos of its main hall in a square and square manner, and they are all horizontal and vertical photos. This kind of scene will shock people who haven't seen it, but it's a bit boring after watching too much. So I choose to shoot from an angle that others can't see and don't pay much attention to, so I can see the scenery from different angles.

One small requirement I make of myself is to take twenty to thirty pictures of each abandoned building, so I will notice a lot of details. For example, if there is any film that was taken away from the backstage of the cinema, I will go and look at it. For example, if there is a letter from the resident of the old hotel left in the abandoned hotel, or a word of thanks written by the resident to the front desk, I will also notice. . Other buildings were abandoned and then sold, so some things were added to re-use, and they were abandoned again after a few years. Therefore, these buildings have traces of two different periods, and many small details mixed together. If I hadn't asked myself to take twenty or thirty pictures, I would have missed these details.

I really like the kind of warm photos, such as seeing a lot of details in abandoned houses, which are very moving, but I still can't take the kind of photos I imagined. Once I saw a family video in an abandoned house. It was a video tape of more than seven years. After taking it, I took it back and looked at it. It was still a photo with no soul. I was quite disappointed.

 Furnace | What was your most memorable experience?

Of course | I think the most unforgettable experience is going to see a blizzard. Because this is the most difficult expedition I have ever done, and there are only two spacecraft in the world. It's really shocking to see the blizzard, it's so big, I can't imagine how big it is when I look at the photos. When I went in, I was looking for a staircase to the top floor, and suddenly I entered a place where I couldn't see anything, but I could feel it must be a very large space. A friend who went with me probably felt the same way, and then we swept it with a red flashlight, and the blizzard was right in front of us. No matter how many photos I've seen before, I'm still shocked and excited when I see it in person.

Another reason is that this program is really difficult. We planned it for six months before, and we also did physical training specially. To the neighboring departure or repeatedly revised the plan. Three days before our departure, the Kazakhstan car rental company called for an interview, and then told us that we could not rent a car to us, and we panicked at that time. We thought of many ways, such as renting a car after arriving, or taking the train, but none of them worked. Eventually we found out that we could land in another town and drive to Baikonur. So we rebooked hotels, bought air tickets, and made preparations before the trip. There are many variables during the journey. Before the trip, we found two missile launch points on the satellite map and prepared them as two rest points, but after we arrived, we found that the two missile launch points were being dismantled, and there was no way to rest and store food. . The entire itinerary is constantly changing. I explained to a friend at the time that there is an old saying in China that "plans can't keep up with changes". You have your plan, the world has another plan.

In addition to the risk of being caught, Russian soldiers will go to patrol at fixed points. Every three or four hours, they will drive jeeps to patrol nearby, and they will also enter the base to find out if there is anyone. If you are caught, you will first be asked to delete photos or destroy your camera memory card, which is a very fatal blow to everyone. The other thing is that you're going to be in a detention center overnight, and they're going through some procedures. Then there is the charge of espionage. But this is international, if you accidentally enter Nepal's territory in India, it is also a crime of espionage. But how to deal with the crime of espionage in the next step is different for everyone. Some will no longer be able to enter Russia, and some will be released directly.

 Furnace | Why risk your life to see a blizzard?

Of course | risking your life is a bit of an exaggeration, it's actually the same as other extreme sports. For example, people who go to climb Mount Everest must also have a plan to maximize the safety of the trip. In addition, everyone will also estimate in their hearts the risks they are willing to take. For example, some people feel that "it doesn't matter if you go to court or pay a ticket, as long as you don't get hurt". Of course, I also have a friend whose principle is not to be arrested, because his work is related to nuclear energy, and being arrested may cause unemployment.

Another point is that the blizzard is really shocking. No matter you ask any urban explorer, when it comes to spaceships, they will know this place. This place is very, very attractive to us. Basically, it can be regarded as the best urban adventure. peak.

 Furnace | You mentioned in the Douban article that you feel connected to the universe when you come out of the blizzard and pass through the wasteland. The exploration of ruins is a very special kind of feeling, like standing on the edge of human beings. I want to ask if you have any The experience of connecting with the universe, life or nature?

Of course | In the summer of 2018, I went to the Hudson Valley Mental Hospital in New York. The mental hospital was more like a domestic university structure and was an abandoned building. The paths and parking lots between the buildings have turned into forests, and the building is trapped in the dense forest. When I went, I saw a deer in front of a building. It was also looking at me. We looked at each other for a few minutes, and it ran away. I didn't have time to take a photo with my camera. It was amazing, that was the first time I felt that this was indeed a world after the disappearance of human beings. Later, I also encountered many other small animals. For example, last time I went to the tuberculosis hospital, I met a little raccoon on the stairs, and the little raccoon turned to look at me, and I also looked at it, For a long time, it didn't come up and I couldn't go down that stair, and then I called and it ran away. I thought it was quite smart. It tilted its head and looked there for a long time to see if I would make way for it. .

 Furnace | Do you think the natural landscape in the ruins or the humanistic feelings are more attractive to you?

Of course | I think both are quite attractive to me. The shock of the natural landscape is more about aesthetics, and aesthetic appeal is one of the reasons why I started exploring. The humanistic shock didn't come to me until later. Once in Rockland's mental hospital, the impact on the humanities was particularly severe. The place was almost destroyed at that time, and it was also facing demolition. The aesthetic significance was relatively weak. When I went to the flank, I saw pictures of mentally ill children, and I felt that these people were no different from ordinary people. The clothes they wear are also very beautiful, some are shy and some are lively. The dean takes them to play games, which looks like a kindergarten. But then I saw some patients' comments on the Internet, recalling how bad this place was back then.

And the Hudson Valley Hospital was designed by a doctor named Thomas Kirkbride. His concept is to make every ward exposed to sunlight, so it is an unfolding structure, and every room has windows. , was said to be good for psychiatric treatment at that time, and according to this concept, more than a hundred mental hospitals of the same structure were built in North America at that time. This is also the feeling that humanistic feelings can bring.

 Furnace | For you, what kind of adventure is more satisfying to you?

Of course | For me, a more perfect adventure, in addition to taking good photos, that is, there must be an aesthetic feeling. There must be a deep story behind it. , if the blizzard is concerned, it is related to the space development and arms race of the former Soviet Union. If we say Hudson Valley Hospital, it is actually the development of mental illness. Treatments advocated back then are now proving ineffective. In addition, I also hope that the entry into the destination is more difficult and dangerous. All three are indispensable to me.

 Furnace | What is the biggest source of fear in urban exploration?

However | If you simply talk about the interior of the ruins, I think there are both dark and unknown. On the one hand, humans have a natural fear of the dark. For example, if you take off your glasses, you will often fall into the confusion of inaudible and invisible; On the other hand, I still scare myself, for example, I often turn my head to see if something suddenly appears behind me. I still remember a time when my friend and I were going into an underground tunnel. At that time, something hung from the outside of my backpack. At that time, it happened to fall, and I jumped up in fright. If you walk in the sun, you probably won't have such a big reaction. I feel like I may never be able to get over this.

Another point is that human nature still yearns for a safe, stable and comfortable environment. Such abandoned buildings are generally in disrepair, and they are always worried about their own safety, such as the fear of the floor in front of them suddenly breaking and falling. I think this is still similar to extreme sports, like parkour, for example, you know it's dangerous, but in a way you know you can conquer it. To sum up, I think it is still the natural fear of human beings, such as the fear of the dark, or the fear of the unknown and insecurity.

 Furnace | Are you afraid of ghosts?

Of course | I used to be afraid. I used to be not only afraid of ghosts, but also of heights. But I was really curious before, so I would look for some supernatural places to see, for example, what magical radio waves would be detected, or what sounds would be heard. But when you actually go there, you will find that there is often nothing. Over time, I was no longer afraid.

 Furnace | I always feel that the exploration of ruins is an activity that has a sense of distance from human society, as if you can jump out of society at any time and observe human society from another perspective. Will you have something unique to human society because of this? feel?

Of course | I think these abandoned buildings are not completely separated from the human world. They are actually another world wrapped in the human world. It is like playing a game and suddenly finding a hidden way of playing, just like a society in a society. , a world within a world . It's in our everyday world, and it reflects what's in our society. For example, in abandoned theaters, there were a lot of people watching dramas in those days, but when movies developed, because dramas were too expensive, the public tended to go to movie theaters, and many theaters were gradually abandoned. It is the only way for human development.

I read before about a concept called "heterotopia", which describes a cultural system or phenomenon, a disturbing, incompatible, or an alternative cultural system or phenomenon that is still in transition, it is real It exists, but you have to use your imagination to understand it. It will reflect the movements of the outside world, and what happens in the heterotopia will be communicated to the outside world. This concept of heterotopia is very much like urban exploration to me, exploring through ruins and entering another world, it is like time is frozen, you can see the history of the past, but the society you are familiar with has Some are different, and you may have some doubts if there is another timeline in this place .

I imagine that the houses, schools, and workplaces where we live and live will be ruined one day, and will also become such ruins. Descendants also came in full of curiosity to explore, and saw the letters, photos, clothes we left behind... From the small objects with residual temperature, we glimpsed the owner's broken joys, sorrows and longings. I think I would hope that one day. In the ruins, we talk to the dead and exist forever in another world.

Figure | Ranpan

Text | Wu Yue and Cheng Xinyue

WeChat Editor | Song Yue

Matters Editor | Marks

Around the Fire (ID: weilu_flame)

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