Shigeru Miyamoto wants to create a better world (The New Yorker)

Subtitle: This legendary designer rejects violence in games, tries to be a good boss, and builds Nintendo's "Disneyland."

Compiled from: A New Yorker article " Shigeru Miyamoto Wants to Create a Kinder World " (December 20, 2020) by Simon Parkin

In 1977, Shigeru Miyamoto joined Nintendo, which at the time was known for selling toys, playing cards and gadgets. Shigeru Miyamoto was 24 at the time and had just graduated from art school. His boss, inspired by the success of the California-based Atari company, wanted to expand into video games. Shigeru Miyamoto started writing a story about a carpenter, a girl in distress, and a giant ape. As a result, Donkey Kong debuted in 1981. Four years later, Shigeru Miyamoto turned the carpenter into a plumber; the Mario and Super Mario Bros franchises came out. But Shigeru Miyamoto wanted more. Tired of linear and side-scrolling mechanics, he longed to recreate the open world and carefree adventures of his childhood in Sonobe, a small town west of Kyoto. In 1986, Nintendo released The Legend of Zelda .

By 1993, when journalist David Sheff published Game Over: How Nintendo Zapped an American Industry, Captured Your Dollars, and Enslaved Your Children, Shigeru Miyamoto was widely credited with The most important video game designer in history. Although he benefits from the fact that most games are made by huge teams that require a titular leader to whom players can attribute the credit (or responsibility), he remains a near-legendary figure. His games have sold hundreds of millions of copies; he's been instrumental in the design of the Wii; he's a Nintendo mascot, just like the characters he's created. (Rumours of his possible retirement have had a direct impact on the company's stock price.) But, despite Miyamoto's fame, it's ludicrous to think that Miyamoto does a lot of "zapping." First, he always eschews the shooter genres that now dominate the media. The goal he pursued with a strict, almost fanatical devotion, was happiness.

Shigeru Miyamoto turned 68 in November. He has been associated with Walt Disney from the early days of his career, and these comparisons will continue; Shigeru Miyamoto is currently overseeing the design and installation of Super Nintendo World, a 5 billion dollar theme park. Because of his mystique, Nintendo tends to keep Shigeru Miyamoto out of the media. But, a few days after Miyamoto's birthday, I had the rare opportunity to chat with him at length on Zoom - his willingness to show more of the mascot's face than I expected. During the conversation, he revealed his deep thinking about the principles of game design and his efforts to push them forward.

Q: First of all, happy birthday to you. Is it easy to give your birthday present?

Shigeru Miyamoto: I don't actually buy a lot of gifts for others, which means it's hard for me to receive gifts. It may be difficult for everyone to choose what to give me. I got a birthday cake when I went to Universal Studios this week, along with this t-shirt. [Pointing to his black shirt with the Super Nintendo World logo on it. ]

Q: Well, where are you now?

Shigeru Miyamoto: I'm at home in Kyoto, not at Universal Studios, as the background shows.

Q: For over a hundred years, Kyoto has been home to Nintendo's offices. It has become a place of pilgrimage for some people. In my opinion, it has the aura of Willy Wonka 's Chocolate Factory: a secret building filled with amazing inventors working on things to make us happy.

Miyamoto: Once inside the building, it's kind of like what you described. But on the outside, it's simple and clean, a simple square building. Some even compared the reception area to a hospital waiting room. Quite quiet.

Q: Does the environment help spark creativity at Nintendo as you pass by the reception area?

Shigeru Miyamoto: Like I said, the building is simple. Employees can bring any toys or figures they like, but we have a system where designers can switch desks based on whatever project they're working on . Because there is no fixed placement, people don't have as many personal items around them. I think if a kid came to visit and look at the space, it might seem a little boring? Unique creative work happens to everyone. It doesn't need a unique looking environment. Obviously, we have all the equipment to get the job done: mocap studio, sound studio. We also have a well-lit cafeteria with good food.

Q: You have been with Nintendo for forty years. What else excites you about going into the office?

Miyamoto: It's not the circumstances that make me want to go, but the fact that on weekends, I still spend a lot of time thinking about games. By Monday, I'm usually excited to get back to work. For this, I sometimes email on weekends and people don't like that.

Q: What was the last thought that made you feel this way?

Miyamoto: Lately, I've been working on Universal Studios Osaka, planning the attractions there and putting the finishing touches on the rides. I was also involved in the production of mobile games. Since I can easily test and play these games at home over the weekend, by Monday I usually have a long list of things to try and explore.

Q: It's been thirty-five years since Super Mario Bros. Half a lifetime, how do you feel?

Miyamoto: Not long after Super Mario became famous, I was told that I had reached Walt Disney status. I remember pointing out that Mickey was in his 50s and Mario was only two or three years old. So there is a lot to make up for. I do believe that the quality of something depends on whether it is still sought after decades after it was created. Walt Disney didn't create everything Disney put out, but a company that can create these enduring symbols is something I admire. We've finally gotten to a point where people who played Nintendo characters as kids are now playing the same characters with their kids. This longevity is special.

Q: Do you have children or grandchildren?

Miyamoto: Yes, I have two children and a grandson.

Q: I ask this because, when I was growing up, there was a kid who boasted that his father worked for Nintendo, but no one believed him. Not only is this true for your kids, but they also share their dad with Super Mario. Did their friends doubt them?

Miyamoto: Honestly, I don't think my kids care much about my career. Even with their friends, occasionally fans come to visit us, but most of the time we are able to hang out as a family. They certainly never felt pressure to follow a certain path or do it a certain way. At home, I am a normal dad. I don't think they feel any undue burden because of who their father is.

Q: During the pandemic, millions of parents have been working hard to ensure their children have a healthy relationship with video games — not playing for too long, etc. How do you negotiate these things with your children?

Shigeru Miyamoto: The kids feel like they can't stop playing games because it's so much fun -- that's something I can understand and sympathize with. It's important for parents to play games, for example, to understand why a child can't quit before reaching the next save point. As far as my own kids are concerned, I've been lucky because they've always had a good relationship with video games. I never had to limit them or take games away from them.

It's worth noting that in our house, all the video game hardware is mine, and the kids know they're borrowing it. If they can't follow the rules, then they think I can take the machine away from them. I always encourage them to play outside when the weather is nice outside. By the way, they also play a lot of Sega games.

Q: Really? Have you ever been jealous of them playing your opponent's game?

Miyamoto: It's not so much jealousy as it's inspired to try harder, so they prefer what I do.

Q: Which Sega games do they like?

Shigeru Miyamoto: They like driving games. Out Run . They also played Space Harrier .

I had a chance to play with my grandson the other day. He was playing a Nintendo game called Captain Toad , and his eyes were shining; he loved the experience. So I can understand why parents are worried that their kids will be immersed in games. However, in my game design, I always want to encourage the parent-child relationship that nurtures the child at the root. I'm helping my grandson navigate the 3D world in the game and I can see the 3D structures being built in this 5 year old's brain. It also helps him grow, I think.

Q: I believe in video games as a medium, and I believe they can often tell us things about ourselves that are different from the insights that literature or movies provide. I also recognize that they can take up too much space in one's life. They're demanding and seductive; the infatuation they inspire crowds out what's important. Usually, your job is to keep the player immersed. Do you feel a tension between that role and the responsibility to put things into the world that doesn't degrade people?

Miyamoto: It's kind of hard to build a game where players can quit at any time. Humans are driven by curiosity and interest. When we encounter something that stimulates these emotions, we naturally become attracted. That said, I try to make sure that nothing I do wastes the player's time doing things that aren't productive or creative. I'd probably cut out the scenes they've seen in other games, or cut out the clichés, or try to reduce load times. I don't want to take up the player's time by introducing unnecessary rules and whatnot.

The interesting thing about interactive media is that it allows players to engage with a problem, conceive a solution, try the solution, and then experience the results. They can then go back to the thinking stage and start planning their next move. This trial and error process builds an interactive world in their minds. This is the real canvas of our design, not the screen. This is something I keep in mind when designing the game.

Q: Well said.

Shigeru Miyamoto: This idea of not wasting time: This is also something I think about during the creative process. I try to minimize the day-to-day work in the office and increase our new experiences while creating.

Q: You have experienced a lot of success in your life. I don't want to be silly, but does this make you happy?

Shigeru Miyamoto: Yes, it makes me very happy. Originally, when the Famicom came out (Nintendo's first video game console, released in 1983), I thought creating something interesting would be enough to spur sales. As the game got more and more, I realized that even if you create something interesting, it won't necessarily sell unless you can get people's attention. We experienced it many times in our early years. Getting magazines to write about video games is very difficult. I remember going to editors and asking them to feature some of our work, but they told me it wasn't something I was supposed to do as a creative, I was supposed to let sales people do it. Whenever a game or piece of hardware gets media attention, it's a big deal for us.

Then, magazines that only covered games started popping up, and anything we made would be written about immediately. I am grateful for this change. This allows what we do to be appreciated.

Q: I always thought there was something sacred about game making. You're imagining a world, defining the rules of a reality, and then putting little characters into reality. As a game maker, have you ever thought about the rules of this universe?

Shigeru Miyamoto: I haven't thought about it in particular, but when I try to create a game world, I like to work on action and movement. In this experience, there needs to be a mix between the real and the unreal. This way when you make an action in the game, it feels familiar, but also different. To achieve this harmony, you need a bit of truth and falsehood to go along. This is the game I'm trying to create. You take things, feelings or feelings you've been through in your life and summon them in the game world.

Q: If you could design the world, what would you change?

Miyamoto: I wish I could do it so that people can be more considerate and kind to each other. This is something I often think about in my life. For example, in Japan, we provide priority seating on train cars for the elderly or disabled. If the train is relatively empty, sometimes you will see young people sitting in these seats. If I'm going to say something, they'll probably tell me, "But the train is empty, what's the problem?" But if I'm a disabled person and I see people sitting there, I probably don't want them moving. I don't want to be annoying.

I wish we all had a little more empathy in these little things. If there's a way to make the world less selfish, it's the change I'm going to make.

Q: Recently a story about you was widely shared. It's about the Nintendo 64 game GoldenEye, which is based on the 007 movie. Game director Martin Hollis told me that when you first tested the game, you expressed grief at the number of Bond kills and suggested to him that at the end of the credits, let the player go to a hospital bed Visit each victim. It's a sweet story of who you are and what you think the game should be. What do you think of the fact that the media has been dominated by guns and shootings?

Miyamoto: I think humans are born to experience pleasure, say, when we throw a ball and hit a target. That's human nature. However, when it comes to video games, I'm somewhat resistant to focusing on this single source of pleasure. As humans, we have many ways to experience fun. Ideally, game designers would explore other approaches. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a studio really focus on this simple mechanic, but it's not ideal to have everyone do it just because the game is selling well. It would be great if developers could find new ways to keep players happy.

Besides that, I'm also very resistant to the idea that simply killing all the monsters is OK. Even monsters are motivated and for a reason. This is something I've thought a lot about. Suppose you have a scenario where a battleship sank. When you look at it from the outside, it can be a symbol of victory in battle. But a filmmaker or writer might shift the perspective to the person on the boat, giving the audience a close-up view of the action's effect on the person. It would be nice if video game makers did more to change the perspective instead of always looking at a scene from the most obvious angle.

Q: What kind of boss do you think you are?

Shigeru Miyamoto: You mean, if I were a video game boss?

Q: No, what kind of boss?

Miyamoto: When people look at me, I think they might think I'm fine. But if you ask the people on the front lines, the people who actually work with me, they'll probably say I'm picky, or that I'm always commenting on their work. I've had the privilege of growing up in an environment where people complimented me. But I realized that among the people I work with, there is a feeling that they don't get enough credit and that I'm always picky about their work.

Q: I don't want to turn this interview into a job interview, but what are your strengths and weaknesses as a boss?

Shigeru Miyamoto: In this work, we have to create a product, which requires a certain amount of planning. But it's also important to talk about these plans in a different area, not just as a product, but as a dream or a vision. I think my strength is that I am able to paint a convincing picture of the project while still paying attention to the details of actually making the dream come true. So what I've learned is that when I'm working on the details, people see me as a negative person, and when I'm talking about the broader vision, I'm a very positive person.

I also think that the feeling of success can only be shared after players have actually enjoyed a game. Until then, people might think I'm a mean boss trying to get us through. But I think it determines whether a person is a good leader or not.

Q: I'm asking this because people in such important positions at a company are under the spotlight that it's easy for them to abuse that power. Especially the creative industries. I'm not saying this applies to you, but how did you make sure that power didn't go to your head over the years?

Miyamoto: When people try to create new experiences, there is always a certain level of insecurity and worry. But we are also grateful to those with experience who can reassure us that things will work out. This is how I see my role: as both a team supporter and a creative leader. When someone brings me an idea or concept, I realize the fragility in it. I am very careful not to shut up the other person and try to take their advice on my own terms. My only concern is making sure people try to create new experiences. This focus makes it easy for everyone, including myself, to change. I hope this also helps me to be considered a good boss.

Q: Speaking of new experiences, more and more game makers are interested in exploring themes of grief, loss, and grief. It's something your games mostly avoid, perhaps because Nintendo's roots are as a toy maker with a focus on making things for kids. Do you regret not having the opportunity to explore these themes in your work?

Miyamoto: Video games are an active medium. In that sense, they don't require the designer to have complex emotions, it's the player who takes what we give them and reacts in their own way. Complex emotions are difficult to deal with in interactive media. I've worked on films, and passive media is better suited to take on these themes. For Nintendo, the appeal of our characters is that they bring families together. Our games are designed to provide a warm feeling; everyone can enjoy their time playing or watching.

For example, when I was playing with my grandson recently, the whole family gathered around the TV. He and I were focused on what was happening on the screen, but my wife and others were focused on the kids, watching him enjoy the game. I'm glad we were able to create something to facilitate this shared experience. That's the core of what Nintendo does: to bring smiles to players. So I have no regrets. If anything, I wish I could provide more joy, more laughter.

Q: As I get older, I think gaming is one of the things that keeps me young. They cultivated my sense of play and kept me interested in the world. In what ways has games influenced the way you see yourself or the world?

Shigeru Miyamoto: I don't think creating video games has changed my view of the world or myself, but their impact has certainly affected other aspects of my life. I was asked, "What do you do when video games are no longer popular?" Even when that happens, digital experiences are increasingly a part of human life. My interest in participating in these opportunities has only grown.

Q: You talked about Walt Disney and his legacy earlier. What are your ambitions at this point in your life and career?

Miyamoto: As far as Nintendo's business is concerned, the core idea is to create a harmony between hardware and software. It took about ten years, but I think the younger generation here is now perfectly able to stick to this basic principle. In my case, I want to continue to pursue my interests. Nintendo has expanded into new design areas, like the theme park I'm designing. Come to think of it, theme park design is similar to video game design, but it's all about hardware. In a sense, I'm a layman again. But as these rides become more interactive, our expertise will be put to good use. Combining our experience with a new context was probably one of the funniest attempts of the rest of my life.

Q: I want us to go back to the Willy Wonka comparison. In "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory," Wonka launches a game whose secret purpose is to find someone who can replace him. I'm not saying you're looking for a replacement. But Nintendo existed before you and I were born, and I believe it will exist long after you and I are gone. What qualities do you think Nintendo needs to protect to continue to be a Nintendo?

Shigeru Miyamoto: As the company continues to attract new competitors over the years, it gives us an opportunity to think deeply about what makes Nintendo a Nintendo. President Shuntaro Furukawa is in his 40s, and General Manager Nobuya Takahashi is in his 50s, and we are moving in the direction of ensuring that the spirit of Nintendo is passed on smoothly. I don't worry about this anymore. Now I'm focusing on the need to keep finding new experiences. This has always been what interests and excites me about this medium: not perfecting the old, but discovering the new.

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