蓬佩奥最新演讲｜1989年的教训：自由与我们的未来

SECRETARY MIKE POMPEO: Thank you, that’s very kind. I always prefer if I get the applause after I speak – (laughter) – because then you know how – then you know how you did. And Rupert, you reference the Senate race and book publishing. I’m pretty sure those are both felonies if I talked about them – (laughter) – so I’m not going to mention either tonight.

謝謝您的美言。我通常喜歡說完了才聽到掌聲（笑聲），因為那時才知道我表現得好不好。還有，魯帕特（Rupert），妳談到參議院（Senate）競選和出書的事。我可以肯定地說，如果我談這些情況，兩者都是屬於違法的 -（笑聲）- 所以我今晚對這兩件事都閉口不談。

Thank you so much for those kind words, Rupert, for your generous introduction.

多謝魯帕特以諸多溢美之詞做客氣的介紹。

Distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, it’s great to be with you all tonight. It’s remarkable I’m sitting at the table with Dr. Kissinger and Hank Greenberg, the Sterns – amazing people who have done amazing things for America. Thank you all so much for your remarkable service. I’ve been fortunate to get a chance to know Dr. Kissinger. He’s in his mid-90s. Secretary Shultz is mid-90s. I’ve got a lot of runway left. (Laughter.) Must be something about Foggy Bottom that keeps you going.

尊敬的來賓們、女士們和先生們，很高興今晚能與諸位在此共度良宵。我能與基辛格博士（Dr. Kissinger）和漢克·格林伯格（Hank Greenberg）、斯特恩（Sterns）父女同席，令人頗為榮幸——他們都是為美國做出傑出貢獻的優秀人物。多謝您們對國家的貢獻。我很榮幸有機會認識基辛格博士。他高壽九十多歲了。國務卿舒爾茨（Shultz）也已經90多歲。所以看來我的人生也才開始。（笑聲。）壹定是華盛頓DC霧谷（Foggy Bottom）那個街區讓人長壽！

Thanks, too, Ken, and the board of trustees here for taking such good care of us. I’m humbled by your generosity and the receipt of this award tonight. My son often reminds me there’s much for me to be humble for. He – I actually told him about this, and he got online, he looked up all the previous recipients, and he wondered if the institute hadn’t might lost its way. (Laughter.)

我還要謝謝 Ken以及基金會在場的董事會成員對我如此的關愛。妳們的寬容和今晚頒發的這個獎項使我感到當之有愧。我兒子經常提醒我，有很多事情可以令我感到慚愧。他聽了我的話，並且上網查看以往所有的獲獎人。他懷疑貴所是否看走了眼。（笑聲）

He’s also famous for having sent out a note to the entire team that takes care of me when I travel saying, “When my dad got off the plane tonight, he looked like he was half dead. Would somebody put makeup on him?” (Laughter.) It was like 3:00 in the morning in some far-off place.

他還在我出差期間向照顧我的整個團隊發了壹封簡訊，鬧得滿城風雨，“我爸爸今晚下飛機時看上去半死不活的。能不能有人給上個妝？”（笑聲）當時淩晨3點鐘我在遠方某地。

I thought I’d take you back just a minute to talk about something that’s very much on my mind. I remember I had hoped to be sworn in on January 20th, 2017 as America’s CIA director right – a few hours after President Trump’s inauguration. But Senator Wyden had a different idea about timeline, and so I was held up on that Friday.

我想要帶各位回顧壹下我心中縈繞已久的壹些事。我記得，我曾經希望在2017年1月川普總統（President Trump）就任後幾小時內，立即宣誓就任美國中央情報局（CIA）局長。但是參議員懷登（Wyden）對就職時間有不同的設想。所以我的事被推遲到星期五。

But I had asked the President to come out to CIA headquarters on Saturday morning, out to Langley. So when I showed up there that day and the President showed up there that day, I was still the congressman from the 4th District of Kansas hoping that I could scrounge 51 votes on Monday.

但當時我已邀請總統在星期六早上去位於蘭嶺（Langley）的中央情報局總部。當天總統和我到場的時候，我仍然是堪薩斯州（Kansas）第4選區的聯邦眾議員，希望在星期壹能勉強獲得51張確認票。

I mention that because I will never forget what President Trump was focused on. Literally less than 24 hours after he had been sworn in, he was sitting with me and the senior counterterrorism team at the CIA, and he told – he said three things. He said: I’m going to give you everything you need to do; I’m going to give you the authorities you need to conduct this campaign in a way that will keep Americans safe; I want to make sure that we destroy the caliphate, and I want to get the guy who’s the leader of ISIS. And – (applause) – and we worked for two and a half years – the team was fantastic. The work that was done will absolutely make an important contribution to America’s national security. The President led that effort. He was committed to it. He supported everything that I did and then my successor, Director Haspel, and the amazing work of the Department of Defense and all the teams that brought Baghdadi to eternal justice. (Applause.)

我之所以提到這件事，是因為我永遠不會忘記川普總統高度關註的問題。他真的在宣誓就職後不到24小時，就跟我還有資深反恐團隊在中央情報局開會。他提了三件事：我會提供所有妳們需要的壹切資源；所有妳需要的指揮權，打好這壹仗，保護美國的安全；我絕對要摧毀哈裏發（caliphate）。我希望抓住伊斯蘭國（ISIS）的頭目。同時，（掌聲）- 我們為此進行了兩年半的努力 - 這個團隊棒極了。他們的努力絕對為美國的國家安全有重大貢獻。 總統是這個任務的領頭人。他對此堅持不懈。他支持我從事的所有工作，然後是我的繼任者哈斯佩爾（Haspel），以及國防部（Department of Defense）和所有的團隊的傑作，最終將巴格達迪（Baghdadi）繩之以法。（掌聲）

I hope you all know when you – when you get a chance to see someone who is in uniform or someone who is an intelligence officer, you wouldn’t know. There’s actually some of you all sitting out here tonight. You wouldn’t know. Please thank them. It was amazing work that they did and important.

我希望在座各位，當妳們有機會見到三軍官兵或者情報官員，情報人員倒是不好認。實際上今晚就有些情報人員在座。不過是隱姓埋名的。請對他們表示感謝。他們做出了很了不起並且至關重要的工作。

There’s still much work to do. The threat from radical Islamic extremism certainly is not gone, but the work that was done to lead that shows the excellence, the uniqueness, and to the point that was mentioned earlier, the exceptionalism that we have here in the United States of America.

還有很多工作需要做。來自激進的伊斯蘭極端分子的威脅還沒有剷除，但是到目前已經完成的壹切工作顯示了卓越性，獨特性，和早前提到的程度，都展現了美利堅合眾國的獨到之處。

I think it’s true that we can think long about history. Half a century ago your founder charged your institution to think about the future in unconventional ways. President Trump, when he selected me to be the Secretary – the director of the CIA was certainly thinking about something unconventional. Who would have predicted that this kid from Southern California would have this amazing privilege?

我認為我們不妨回顧歷史。同樣獨到的是哈德遜研究所的創辦人, 半世紀前，就高瞻遠矚要以非傳統方式去預想未來。當川普總統任命我擔任國務卿的時候 – 中央情報局局長也肯定有些非傳統的想法。否則誰能預見我這個南加州來的孩子能碰到如此的際遇？

He also knew – Herman knew – that in the interest of furthering and protecting this great and noble experience that we call the United States of America, that there was no higher mission than to getting that right.

他還知道 – 赫爾曼也知道 –為了延續和保護這個我們稱為美利堅合眾國的神聖偉大的經驗， 最重要的，就是要行得正

That’s why I thought I’d focus in the few minutes today before I take some questions, I thought I’d focus on something that is central to what the Trump administration is working on that is different from previous administrations. That’s not political, we have just – we have taken on the challenge from the People’s Republic of China in a way that the time is calling for.

因此我想在回答各位問題前，用幾分鐘的時間重點談壹些問題。這是川普政府致力在做的，也和前幾任政府作法不同的事。 這不是政治議題，我們正面對著應付中共挑戰的這個時代任務。

Look, we have a long-cherished tradition of friendship with the Chinese people. We continue to do so today. We have a Chinese American community here in America that we love and treasure. I’ve known them through business and personal ties; I’ve known many of them.

傳統以來，我們壹向珍視和中國人民的友誼。今天依然如此。我們熱愛並珍惜美國的華裔社群。通過工作和私人關系，我結識了很多華裔美人。

But I must say that the communist government in China today is not the same as the people of China. They’re reaching for and using methods that have created challenges for the United States and for the world.

但是今天我必須說清楚，共產黨政府不等同中國人民 。中國力求和正在使用的各種發展方法對美國和全世界構成了挑戰。

And we collectively, all of us, need to confront these challenges from the PRC head-on, and along each of the many facets.

我們需要以共同的努力，我們所有人，直接正面對抗來中共各個方面的挑戰。

There are many opportunities, to be sure, but it is no longer realistic to ignore the fundamental differences between our two systems and the impact, the impact that those two systems have, the differences in those systems have on American national security.

誠然，我們有許多的機會，但是繼續忽略兩個政治體制的衝突與根本差異是不現實的。這兩個系統的衝突和差異已經危害了美國的國家安全。

This is a departure, for sure. It might be viewed as unconventional. It’s not what you’ve heard from leaders for the last two decades plus. Frankly, we’ve been slow to see the risk of China – the risk that it poses to American national security, because we wanted friendship with the People’s Republic from the very start. And because we, as Americans, always continue to hope for that.

也許有人會說我走偏鋒，但可以肯定， 這不再是這二十多年來我們領導人所形容的關係。 坦率地講，我們看清中國給美國國家安全帶來的風險已經有點後知後覺了。 這是因為我們在最開始就壹直想與中國維持友好關係。 因為我們美國人民始終希望如此。

But frankly, in our efforts to achieve this goal, we accommodated and encouraged China’s rise for decades, even when – even when that rise was at the expense of American values, Western democracy, and security, and good common sense.

但是坦率的說，在我們想達成這個目標的過程中，幾十年來，我們接納並鼓勵中國崛起，甚至以犧牲美國的價值觀，西方民主，國家安全和普世價值做為代價。

We downgraded our relationship with our long-time friend, Taiwan, on the condition that the “Taiwan question” would be resolved peacefully, to normalize relations with Beijing.

為了與北京關係的正常化，我們以臺灣問題和平解決的前提下, 降低了跟臺灣老朋友的關係。

We all too often shied away from talking directly about the human rights issues there and American values when they came into conflict, and we downplayed ideological differences, even after the Tiananmen Square massacre and other significant human rights abuses.

當矛盾產生時，我們往往避開直接談論人權問題和美國的價值觀, 即使在天安門大屠殺和其他嚴重侵害人權的事件上, 我們也淡化了意識形態的差異。

We encouraged China’s membership in the World Trade Organization and other international organizations, premised on their commitment to adopt market reforms and abide by the rules of those organizations. And all too often, China never followed through.

在他們應許遵守規則及接受市場改革的前提下，我們促使了中國加入世貿及其他國際組織。但是中國壹再的不守規則。

We hesitated and did far less than we should have when China threatened its neighbors like Vietnam, and like the Philippines, and when they claimed the entire South China Sea.

當中國威脅鄰近的越南，菲律賓，宣稱整個南中國海（South China Sea）是他們的時候， 我們再度遲疑，沒有當機立斷。

Frankly, we did an awful lot that accommodated China’s rise in the hope that communist China would become more free, more market-driven, and ultimately, hopefully more democratic.

坦率說，我們實在為讓中國崛起委曲求全了太多。因為我們期待共產黨中國可以變得更自由，更市場導向，最終可望變得更加民主。

And we did this for a long time.

我們這樣做了很久。

There’s another reason we adopted these policies: We didn’t realize how China was evolving. Frankly, the American people didn’t get the full story.

還有壹個我們對中國讓步的原因：就是我們沒能了解中國如何的演變。其實，美國人民都不知道真實狀況。

I’ve talked to so many business leaders. U.S. companies that invested heavily in China were forced to comply with China’s terms. This includes just about any topic that the Chinese Communist Party deemed controversial.

我與許許多多商界領袖談過, 他們的公司在中國大量投資，然後被迫遵守中國的規則。這包括幾乎任何被中國共產黨視為有爭議的話題。

Beijing’s intransigence creates a permanent class of China lobbyists in the United States. Their primary job is to sell access to Chinese leaders and connect business partners.

北京的冥頑不靈，在美國創造了壹群永久的中國遊說班子。他們的主要工作就是兜售接近中國領導層的機會，替妳拉商業關係。

And frankly, whenever there was a dispute or tension in the relationship, many of our scholars blamed the United States for misrepresenting the nature of the Chinese Communist Party.

老實說，每當雙方出現爭端或關係緊張時，我們的許多學者會出來指責是美國誤會曲解了中共的本質。

Meanwhile, Beijing controlled and limited access to our diplomats, journalists, and academics to the main – when they were traveling to mainland China. They still do that today. If you saw the difference – if you saw the difference in how Chinese diplomats are treated and how American diplomats and the access they have, you too would find the absence of reciprocity deeply inconsistent with American values.

同時呢，北京限制了我們的外交人員，記者，還有學者在中國大陸旅行的自由接觸機會。直到今天都是如此。假如妳了解雙方對待對方外交人員的態度，看到美方人員受到的限制，妳不能不同意這種缺乏互相尊重的狀況實在跟美國的價值觀南轅北轍。

And China’s state-run media and government spokespeople filled the gaps, routinely maligning American intentions and policy objectives. They still do that today. They distorted how Americans view the People’s Republic and how they review General Secretary Xi.

並且中國政府經營的媒體則順水推舟，壹再地誣蔑美國的意圖及政策目標。他們直到今天仍是如此。他們歪曲了美國人民對中華人民共和國還有習總書記的評論。

These bad outcomes were all too predictable. They were predictable byproducts of dealing with a secretive regime that doesn’t respect fairness, the rule of law, and reciprocity.

長此以往，不好的結果當然是可以預見的。這都是與不尊重公平，法治，和互利的暗箱作業政權打交道的副作用結果。

Today, we’re finally realizing the degree to which the Chinese Communist Party is truly hostile to the United States and our values, and its worse deeds and words and how they impact us. And we’re able to do that because of the leadership of President Trump.

今天，我們終於認識到中國共產黨真正敵視美國及我們的價值觀到何種程度，以及它的更惡劣言行和對我們的影響。我們能夠做到這點是因為有川普總統的領導。

The President sounded this issue, this alarm, since his very first day. I remember one speech he gave back in Pennsylvania when he called China’s WTO membership “the greatest job theft in history.” A lot of people laughed. I don’t think so many of them are laughing now that they can see the reality.

總統從他上任第壹天就拉響了警鈴。 我記得他在賓夕法尼亞州發表的壹次講話，當時他稱中國加入WTO是“歷史上最大的工作盜竊行為”。 當時很多人大笑。 我不認為那些人現在看到了現實還笑得出來。

It’s the case that now we know China weakens America’s manufacturing base by conducting massive intellectual property theft. I had a group of Fortune 500 CEOs in my office last week. The stories are staggering.

現在我們知道中國通過大規模的知識產權盜竊，正在削弱美國的製造業基礎。上週，壹群《財富》 500強公司的首席執行官來我的辦公室裡。他們的經歷是很難讓人置信的。

Now we know too that China threatens American freedoms by demanding our companies self-censor to maintain access to that Chinese market. We’ve all seen the stories recently of the NBA. The truth is Beijing ought to be free to run its own PR campaign; they’re a sovereign nation. But if we disagree, our companies ought to be permitted to have that disagreement. Silencing dissent simply is not acceptable.

現在我們也知道，中國通過要求我們的公司進行自我言論審查，威脅美國的自由，以保持進入中國市場的機會為要脅。我們都看到最近發生在NBA的事。事實是，北京應該有自由做自己的公關活動；他們是壹個主權國家。但是如果我們有不同意的地方，我們的公司應該可以持不同意見。封殺持異議者絕對是不能被接受的。

And now we know – now we know that China threatens America’s national security by developing asymmetric weapons that threaten our strategic assets too.

現在我們知道中國威脅著美國的國家安全， 通過開發威脅我們戰略資產的不對稱武器。

The list goes on.

這樣的事例不勝枚舉。

And these aren’t just our problems. They’re problems for all nations that share our values.

這些不僅僅是我們的問題。對於所有分享我們價值觀的國家來說，這都是問題。

When we see Beijing use coercion as a preferred tool of statecraft, it’s not good for those of us who believe in democracy and sovereignty as the fundamental norms that ought to dominate world commerce and the way nations interact. These ideas, they threaten the free and open international order by making extrajudicial territorial and maritime claims in places like the South China Sea and the Taiwan Strait.

當我們看到北京使用脅迫作為治國首選工具時，那些相信民主和主權為基本準則的人就要受害了。民主和主權的準則才應該是主導貿易和國家互動的方式。他們在南中國海及臺灣海峽（Taiwan Strait）非法的領土及海事佔領，已經威脅自由和開放的國際秩序。

We know too that Beijing entwines its neighbors and others in its state-led economic model, often closing deals with bribes, often trapping many in debilitating debt levels, threatening their own sovereignty.

我們也知道，北京在其國家主導的經濟模式中，把鄰國和其他國家綁在壹起，經常以賄賂來達成交易，常使許多人陷入債務惡化，威脅到那些國家的主權。

And now we know too and we can see China’s regime trampling the most basic human rights of its own citizens – the great and noble Chinese people. We’ve seen this in Hong Kong, where they need to live up to their promises and commitments, and we’ve seen it in the gross human rights violation of ethnic minorities in Xinjiang.

現在我們也知道了，我們可以看到中國政權踐踏了其本國公民 – 偉大而高尚的中國人民的最基本人權。我們在香港看到了這壹點，他們必需履行自己的諾言和承諾，我們在新疆的少數民族也看到了極嚴重侵犯人權的行為。。

We know too that the Chinese Communist Party is offering its people and the world an entirely different model of governance. It’s one in which a Leninist Party rules and everyone must think and act according to the will of the Communist elites. That’s not a future that I want, I think it’s not a future that anyone in this room wants, it’s not a future that other democracies want, and it’s not a future that the people of China – the freedom-loving people of China everywhere don’t want this model.

我們也知道中國共產黨提供他的人民和世界壹種完全不同的治理模式。這是列寧主義政黨（Leninist Party）統治模式，嚴格限制每個人的思想和行動，遵守共產黨領導層的意願。那不是我想要的未來，我認為也不是在座的任何壹個人想要的未來。 這不是其他民主國家想要的未來，也不是中國人民的未来 — 熱愛自由的中國人民在任何地方都不希望有這種模式。

President Trump’s National Security Strategy lays this out. It recognizes China as a strategic competitor. That means there’s challenges and there’s real opportunities, and we hope that we can engage with them in ways that are constructive. But it’s reality. It’s the truth.

川普總統的《國家安全戰略》（National Security Strategy）清楚聲明， 承認中國是戰略競爭對手。這意味著挑戰與機遇並存，我們希望我們可以持續與他們保持建設性的關係。但是這是現實。也是事實。

It’s also the case that we didn’t choose some of these issues. China forced them upon us.

許多爭端不是我們挑起的，這也是事實。中國把它們強加給我們。

In the coming months, I’m going to give a series of sets of remarks. I’m going to talk about each of these in some more detail.

在接下來的幾個月中，我將發表壹系列評論。我將更詳細地討論每壹個細節。

I’ll talk about the competing ideologies and values and the impact that has on America and the world. The Chinese Communist Party is a Marxist-Leninist Party focused on struggle and international domination. We need only listen to the words of their leaders.

我將談論競爭的意識形態和價值觀，及其對美國和世界的影響。中國共產黨是馬克思-列寧主義政黨 (Marxist-Leninist Party)。專註於鬥爭和稱霸國際。我們只需要聽聽他們領導人的話就知道了。

I’ll discuss too how they interfere with the things we take most for granted here in the United States. The party’s intelligence agencies, the United Front Work, and its propaganda outlets have embarked on a global campaign to change public opinion in favor of Beijing. We want to preserve our freedoms – our freedom of speech and we want to make sure that information flows freely everywhere.

我還將討論它們如何幹涉我們在美國這裡最理所當然的事情。共黨的情報機構，統壹戰線（United Front Work），及其宣傳機構已著手開展全球活動， 改變輿論以偏袒北京。我們要維護我們的自由 – 我們的言論自由，並且我們要確保信息自由地流向任何地方。

And I’ll discuss too the impact on the international order. Beijing is actively creating its own international space and it participates in international organizations to validate its authoritarian system and spread its reach. We in the United States, and I think the good people who are part of the Hudson Institute, want to preserve the existing free and open international order that the United States has helped create and continues to lead.

我也將討論中共對國際秩序的影響。北京正在積極創造自己的國際空間，並參加國際組織做實其威權體係並擴大其影響範圍。我們美國人，包括哈德森學院的好朋友們，都想要保留現在美國協助創建並領導的自由開放國際秩序。

And I’ll too – talk too about the economy. China has engaged in unfair predatory economic practices and it’s utilizing state assets to build its economic footprint all around the world. We want China to be successful. We want it to have a successful economy. We want a transparent, competitive, market-driven system that is mutually beneficial for all involved.

我也會談論經濟。中國從事不公平的掠奪性經濟活動，並利用國有資產在全球建立自己的經濟足跡。我們希望中國成功。我們希望它擁有成功的經濟。我們需要壹個透明，有競爭力，市場驅動的系統，該系統對所有參與者互惠互利。

You can see the first steps towards that in the Phase 1 deal that we are close to signing. I’m optimistic we’ll get there. It’s a good thing, a place that we can work together. We want to make sure that we get that right and we want to make sure that the economic relationships are fair, reciprocal, and balanced as between us as well. I think this will show that there is common ground to be had, and the Trump administration will work tirelessly to find it wherever we can.

您可以在我們即將簽署的第壹階段交易中看到邁向這壹目標的第壹步。我對達成目標持樂觀的態度。我們可以壹起合作會是件好事我們要確保我們達成合作，我們要確保兩國之間的經濟關係也是公平，互惠和平衡的。這表示我們之間仍存在共同點，川普政府將不懈努力，盡我們所能找到這些共同點。

And I’ll get a chance too to talk about how our militaries compete and the capabilities that China has built up that far exceed what they would need for self-defense.

我也會談談我們軍事上的競爭。中國已經建立了遠遠超出自衛所需的武力。

There’s lots of discussion, lots of think-tank discussion, lots of academic discussion about what the relationship will look like between the United States and China in the years and decades ahead. I’ll be clear about what the United States wants: We don’t want a confrontation with the People’s Republic of China. In fact, we want just the opposite.

有很多智囊團討論，有很多關於在未來的幾十年中，中美之間的關係將是什麼樣的學術討論。我會清楚地陳述美國所要的：我們不希望與中華人民共和國對抗。實際上，我們想要的正相反。

We want to see a prosperous China that is at peace with its own people and with its neighbors.

我們希望看到壹個繁榮的中國，它與自己的人民和鄰國和平相處。

We want to see a thriving China where the Chinese business community transact business with the rest of the world on a fair set of reciprocal terms that we all know and understand.

我們希望看到壹個蓬勃發展的中國，中國企業依據世界各地都了解接受的公平的互惠條款與其他國家公平做生意。

And we want to see a liberalized China that allows the genius of its people to flourish.

我們希望看到壹個開放的中國，它允許其人民的才能得以蓬勃發展。

And we want to see a China that respects basic human rights of its own people, as guaranteed by its own constitution.

我們希望看到壹個尊重自己人民基本人權的中國，正如中國憲法保證的。

But above all, it’s critical that as Americans, we engage China as it is, not as we wish it were.

對美國人來說，最要緊的是我們應該應對真實的中國，而不是我們希望的中國。

Herman Kahn used to remind us, he would urge us to think unconventionally to create persuasive arguments for policy and make those arguments consistently to the American people.

赫爾曼·卡恩曾經提醒我們，他會敦促我們非常規地思考，以產生有說服力的政策論點，並把這些論據始終壹致地講述給美國人民。

We have to think anew, and unconventionally, about the People’s Republic of China.

我們必須以全新的、非常規的思維方式來思考中華人民共和國。

I hope you will all join me in that. We will learn together and we will develop a strong relationship between these two nations.

希望大家都加入我的行列。我們將共同學習，並將在這兩個國家之間建立牢固的關係。

I’m going to now stop and take a few questions from mister – Ken.

我就講到這裏，現在回答幾個問題，這位先生—肯（Ken）。

Thank you. God bless you all. (Applause.)

謝謝各位。上帝保佑大家（掌聲）

KENNETH WEINSTEIN: Mr. Secretary, always an honor and a pleasure to be with you. I guess the World Series isn’t going to be the big news headline tomorrow morning. Well, what a —

溫斯坦先生：國務卿先生，與您在壹起壹直是我的榮譽和榮幸。我想明天早上世界系列將不會成為頭條新聞。

SECRETARY POMPEO: Depends if the Nationals win. (Applause.)

國務卿彭培奧: 那要看國民隊贏不贏。（掌聲）

WEINSTEIN: Let me just throw out a few questions. That was a truly remarkable speech, clearly the first of several, as you indicated, on this important theme of the competition between the United States and China, the future of China, the future of our relations, and the future also of freedom in China. You said – that was an incredibly rich speech. Let me pick out one theme and ask you about it first, which is the question – you talked about how freedom-loving people everywhere reject the Leninist model – including in China – reject the Leninist model of the Chinese Communist Party, and you drew a distinction between the Chinese people and the Chinese Communist Party. How do you think about these issues?

溫斯坦先生：我只想提出幾個問題。那是壹次真正了不起的演講，很明顯，正如您所指出的，美中競爭，以及中國未來的重要主題。 這是壹次內容豐富的不得了的演講。讓我挑選壹個主題，然後先問您壹個問題，這就是您所談論的問題。 關於熱愛自由的人--包括中國--如何拒絕列寧主義模式。 拒絕中國共產黨的列寧主義模式，而您特地在中國人民和中國共產黨之間做了區分。您如何看待這些問題？

SECRETARY POMPEO: Well, I always start with a fundamental proposition that President Trump speaks to very directly: Every nation is sovereign. They get to lead their nation in the way they want. We respect Chinese sovereignty; they have the right to lead it. I always – I stare at this and think about the – I think about this as we’ve seen governments with ideologies like this before. This is not new in terms of how countries operate in the world. And while I know what America wants, what we’d like our relationship with China to be, I’m always reminded – and we talk about this an awful lot of times in counterterrorism. In the counterterrorism world, when do you get to stop doing this? The answer is the enemy gets to vote, right?

國務卿彭培奧: 我總是從基本命題開始，川普總統非常直接地說：每個國家都是主權國家。他們以自己想要的方式領導自己的國家。我們尊重中國主權； 他們有權領導。我壹直-我盯著這個，然後思考-我考慮過這個，因為我們以前曾見過具有這種意識形態的政府。各國在世界上的運作方式而言，這並不是什麼新鮮事。雖然我知道美國想要什麼，我們希望與中國建立什麼樣的關係總是有人提醒我-我們在反恐方面談論了很多次。在反恐世界中，您何時才能停止這樣做？答案是敵人自己可以決定，對嗎？

We think about that. Our adversaries get a choice on how this will proceed. And I think we need to try to help China make good choices, because we – and if we do that well, we’ll create a set of incentives that will reward those choices. And when I say good, good choices for the world – this is a billion and a half people that they’re going to be an important, powerful country in the world. This is a certainty. We don’t reject that, we don’t think that’s improper. We want them – we want them to be successful and grow and prosper.

我們考慮壹下。我們的對手可以選擇如何進行。我認為我們需要嘗試幫助中國做出明智的選擇，因為我們-如果做得好，那麼，我們將創建壹系列激勵措施，獎勵這些選擇。對中國好就是對世界好的選擇，這是壹個有十五億人口的國家。他們將成為世界上重要而強大的國家。這是可以肯定的。我們不反對這壹點，我們不認為這有什麼不好。我們希望他們成功，成長和繁榮。

But there’s been this notion – there’s been this notion that the Chinese put forward about win-win, that every transaction can be win-win. And that’s true when you do a business deal, when I give you 50 cents and you give me a Snicker bar, you’re happier with the 50 cents, I’m happy with the Snicker. But it’s – right, that’s – right, it’s basic market underpinnings.

但是這裡有壹個概念，中國人提出來的概念。關於雙贏，即每筆交易都可以雙贏。當您進行業務交易時，當我給您50美分，而您給我壹個士力架。妳滿意50美分，我高興得到士力架。但這是基本的市場支柱。

It’s not been the case that these have all been win-win. It’s been the case that we’ve had U.S. companies go in there and they have been given commercial access. I was pleased they made decisions on banking and insurance regulations that they’re – that are changed. These are really good signs. I’m encouraged by that. I hope they’ll continue to do that. I hope we’ll continue to open markets for them as well. The President has said if we can get to where there are no barriers – right, no – we want this to be fair, and we want there to be even more trade between the two countries. When you think about that, you have to lay it against the ideological overlay inside the country, and decide whether that is something that you can achieve, and more importantly, what are the things that we can do so that we’re more likely to achieve that outcome?

我們跟中國的交易並非都是雙贏。事實是，我們已經有美國公司進駐那裡，並且獲得了商業機會。我很高興他們對銀行和保險業做出決定，他們在改變。這些確實是好兆頭。我感受到鼓舞。希望他們會繼續這樣做。希望我們也將繼續為他們開放市場。總統說過，如果我們能到達沒有貿易壁壘的地步。我們希望公平，並且我們希望兩國之間有更多的貿易。考慮這壹點時，必須將其與國內的意識形態重疊相對應。並確定這是否是您可以實現的目標，更重要的是我們可以做些什麼，以便更有可能實現這壹結果？

WEINSTEIN: So stay tuned for future speeches on this subject, surely.

溫斯坦先生：所以，當然請繼續關註有關該主題的未來演講。

SECRETARY POMPEO: We – President Trump has made clear this is a central relationship for the United States for the next 50 or 100 years. We are all still figuring out the right tactics and strategy to deliver against the objectives that I set out here tonight: a strong, connected relationship with China. How do you get there? How do you think about this? We’ll learn as we go along. The United States will iterate; it’s what we do best. We’re creative, we will adapt. But we think it’s absolutely essential that we do so in a way that reflects what’s really happening, and the risks attendant with that.

國務卿彭培奧:川普總統已明確表明這是未來50或100年的美國核心外交關係。我們仍在尋找正確的手段和策略來實現目標。我今晚在這裡說的是：要與中國有牢固聯繫的關係。您怎樣到達那裡？您如何看待？我們將邊做邊學。美國將進行更叠； 這就是我們最擅長的。我們富有創造力，我們會適應。但是我們認為，以反映實際情況以及隨之而來的風險的方式，這樣做絕對是至關重要的。

WEINSTEIN: Let me ask you about Hong Kong quickly. How – what should the United States be doing?

溫斯坦先生：讓我迅速向您詢問有關香港的情況。美國應該怎麼做？

SECRETARY POMPEO: It won’t surprise you I think we’ve got our policy right. (Laughter.) Look, we’re hopeful that – the Chinese made a commitment that – we hope they’ll live up to that. And at the same time, we’re telling everyone that we interact with we don’t want violence. We want this – we think there should be a political solution to the conflict that’s taking place there. We say this to – I say this to my Chinese counterparts, I say this publicly when we want the protesters to hear this too. We don’t want them to engage in violence either. We hope they can find a path forward that is consistent with the idea of “One Country, Two Systems.” That’s the commitment that the Chinese Government made. We hope they’ll live up to it.

國務卿彭培奧:我認為我們的政策正確，這不足為奇。（笑聲） 聽著，我們希望-中國人做出了壹項承諾-我們希望他們能兌現。同時，我們告訴每個人我們都希望避免暴力。我們認為那裡發生的衝突應有壹個政治解決方案。我們這樣說–我對中國對手說，我公開地說。希望抗議者也聽到這壹點。我們也不希望他們參與暴力。我們希望他們能夠找到壹條符合“壹個國家，兩種制度”的想法的道路。那就是中國政府的承諾。我們希望他們能做到。

WEINSTEIN: And lastly, let me ask you about as you – as you balance your incredible responsibilities as Secretary of State and you look at the unbelievable turmoil around the world – I mean, we’re living in one of the most tumultuous periods certainly in recent history or if not in the last – certainly in the last few decades. How do you as Secretary of State set your priorities on a strategic level? You’ve got China, North Korea. You’ve got Iran. You’ve got the need for our allies to step up further, to do more. But we also need to make sure that we keep them engaged because of this geostrategic competition with China. How do you – at the – how do you balance these things?

溫斯坦先生：最後，讓我問您壹件事 – 當您平衡難以置信的國務卿的職責，目睹世界上難以置信的動盪。我是說，我們肯定生活在近代最動蕩的時期之壹，至少是最近幾十年。作為國務卿，您如何在戰略層面上確定優先事項？妳有中國，朝鮮。妳有伊朗。您需要我們的盟友進壹步加強工作，做更多工作。但是，由於這種地緣戰略，我們還需要確保讓他們參與進來和中國競爭。您如何在這些方面保持平衡？

SECRETARY POMPEO: Ken, that’s a long list. I feel bad for coming to New York tonight. (Laughter.) I need to get back to work. So a couple things. First of all, the President set out a framework and continues to set out a framework for how we think about these issues and prioritize them. It’s also a blessing that we have a country that is wealthy enough to support a State Department team that’s capable of doing many things at one time.

蓬佩奧國務卿：肯尼斯，那是壹長串名單。 我就知道今晚在紐約不會好過。 （笑聲）我要回去工作了。這麼說吧。 首先，總統制定了壹個框架，並繼續為我們怎樣考慮這些問題設定框架並優先排序。也有幸我國有財力來支持壹個能同時完成許多事情的國務院團隊。

As for my time and attention, I try to spend my days pushing along those projects where it looks like I can get a high ROI on my time, while also making sure that I invest in the things that I know I’ll leave behind, sort of the institutional things at the State Department so that this team is in a place where we’ve got the right leaders and the right training and the right human capital inside the U.S. Department of State, so that when my time is up, the next set of – the next set of leaders will come along and have a talented, capable workforce that’s ready to engage and deliver American diplomacy around the world.

至於我的時間和註意力，我會花在看來投資回報率高的，看起來我可以在自己的時間上，同時還確保花時間在。我可以傳承給繼任的項目， 諸如院內機構類的東西。這樣這個團隊就擁有合適的領導者和正確的培訓，以及美國國務院內部合適的人力資本。有才華能力的團隊，隨時可以在世界參與及開展美國外交。

WEINSTEIN: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Secretary. It’s really been an immense honor. I’ll turn it over to our great board chair Sarah Stern. (Applause.)

溫斯坦先生：很好，非常感謝國務卿先生。這確實是壹個極大的榮幸。 我把主席權交給我們偉大的董事會主席莎拉·斯特恩。 （鼓掌）

SARAH MAY STERN:* Wow. I think he gets a standing O for that. He asked how about the – about the – (applause.)

莎拉·斯特恩： Wow, 我認為他可以讓我們起立。 他問怎麼樣（鼓掌）

Mr. Secretary, you said it would depend on the applause afterwards. I think that was an incredible talk. I think we in this room are all now insiders about what’s about to happen. I can’t wait to listen to the rest of your talks as they are unrolled. You certainly have paid attention to the views of our Hudson experts on China, so thank you for that. (Applause.)

國務卿先生，您說講完的掌聲才算數。我認為那是壹次了不起的講話。我想我們這個房間裡的人現在對於即將發生的事情都是局內人了。我等不及要聽後續的演講。您肯定已經關註了這些哈德森有關中國的專家的觀點，非常感謝。（掌聲）

I think freedom-loving people around the globe, starting in China but moving on to some of those other places like Venezuela, Iran, other places that are living under nondemocratic governments, would thank you for that. And I think that people who live in democratic governments, and particularly Americans, and particularly the people in this room, would say thank you. (Applause.)

我認為全球愛好自由的人，從中國開始，然後到別處，例如委內瑞拉，伊朗這些不是民主政府的國家，都會想感謝您。我認為生活在民主政府國家的人，特別是美國人，尤其是這個房間裡的人會對您說謝謝。掌聲

So we give Hudson Institute’s award to celebrate farsighted leaders who have made exceptional contributions to the security, prosperity, and freedom of the United States and its allies. I cannot imagine anyone better suited than you to address the complex set of challenges that faces our country today.

因此，我們授予哈德森學院獎以慶祝傑出的有遠見的領導者對安全，繁榮的貢獻，和美國及其同盟國的自由。我無法想像有誰比您更適合應對今天我們的國家要面對的如此複雜的挑戰。

Last week, on Hudson’s podcast, The Realignment, you mentioned that in dealing with China it is important to speak without emotion and with great clarity. As we heard tonight, these two characteristics do define your approach to China and also to other world affairs. As we’ve also heard tonight, you bring a powerful intellect informed by an understanding of history and fueled by creativity. In fact, I can think of no greater praise than to say you sound and act downright Hudsonian. (Laughter and applause.)

上週，在哈德森的播客《重新調整》（The Realignment）中，您提到在與中國打交道時說話要非常清晰，不要情緒激動。正如我們今晚聽到的，這兩個特點代表了您對中國的態度，和其他世界的事務。我們今晚聽到的，是您帶來了以理解歷史和創造力為基礎的大智慧。您的言行完全是哈德遜風格，我想不出更多的讚美。（笑聲和掌聲）

So it is my great honor to present you with the Herman Kahn Award.

我很榮幸向您頒發赫爾曼·卡恩獎。

SECRETARY POMPEO: Thank you. Thank you. (Applause.) Thank you.

國務卿: 謝謝！ 謝謝！（掌聲）謝謝！

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