"One Brother" on Politics: "It is easier to be the Chief Executive of Macau"｜The Essence of Ho Iat Seng's Interview with "The End" #03

This article is specially reproduced by the Macao independent media "Lunquan Media". The original title is: "One Brother" on Politics - A Dialogue between the President of the Legislative Council Ho Iat Seng and Lunquan . Recently, we have started to contribute to "The End" and launched a new subscription plan in cooperation with Patreon. At the same time, we have reprinted selected articles of "The End" on Matters, so that readers from both sides of the Taiwan Strait and four places can better understand the social issues in Macau.

Our Words: This article is the last in a series of interviews with Ho Iat Seng on "The End". In 2014, the SAR was in the midst of a new term, and Cui Shian had no doubts that he should do it again, but it was rumored that the then chairman of the Legislative Council, Ho Iat Seng, was also a strong contender. The reporters of "The End" asked a variety of questions about "what would you do if you were the chief executive?", among which the answers about accountability, rotation of senior officials, and what the chief executive should be able to do have become witnesses so far. ); some are still to be evaluated by later generations...

"As the President of the Legislative Council, as long as anyone who meets the requirements of the Basic Law, we should support him to participate in the election of the chief executive. This is my attitude." Just as the establishment was busy "showing allegiance" to the Chief Executive, Chui Sai On, to support his re-election, as Ho Iat-shing, the "first brother" of the Legislative Council at the top of the establishment faction, remained "neutral" and did not join the list of "show allegiance". This move won a lot of applause from the community.

Entering the fourth term of the Chief Executive Election, as the "first brother" of the Legislative Council and a member of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress, what is Ho Yat-sing's view on the Chief Executive Election to be held in a few months? What advice does he have for the next chief executive? What are his thoughts on the governance philosophy of the next government? In addition, in the third chief executive election in 2009, Ho Iat-shing was the most popular candidate for chief executive. It was widely rumored that he had the highest recognition in the hearts of the establishment and the central government. However, he was the first to show that he would not consider running for chief executive. What was the reason for his refusal to be "elected" back then?

The above questions will be answered in the dialogue given by the President of the Legislative Council, Ho Iat-shing, in an exclusive interview with Mr. Ho.

Conclusion: Up to now, apart from the Chief Executive Chui Sai On's announcement that he will "run" for re-election, no one else has announced that he will run for re-election. Will the fourth term of the Chief Executive Election be a "one-legged show" for Mr. Cui to be re-elected?

He: I think this is because the registration period has not yet come. I don’t think there will be only one person running for the election, but I can’t guarantee it if I get the admission ticket, but there will definitely be other people running for the election. As the current Chief Executive, the chances of being re-elected are definitely higher. Based on the commitment to society, it is reasonable to run for election again, and it is also an affirmation of one's work. However, who is preparing to participate, I haven't heard from this yet.

All in all: The situation in Hong Kong is that when Leung Chun-ying came out to run for election, he was recognized and supported by some citizens. In the opinion polls at that time, his approval rate was also not low. Will there be such a powerful challenge in Macau? who appeared?

He: The situation in the next election may be more obvious. The situation in Hong Kong is also the same. When Donald Tsang ran for re-election, no one came out to run for election. At that time, only Leung Ka Kit was the only opponent, and Leung Chun-ying did not run for election. When Tsang Yinquan could not be re-elected, only Tang Yingnian, Liang Zhenying and He Junren came out to run for election. I think when the Macau government reaches the fifth term, there may be this opportunity. In the fourth election, no candidate recognized by Beijing has been heard yet. Maybe some people are preparing, but I don't know.

At present, everyone is at an unequal starting line. The current Chief Executive has a relatively good understanding of all aspects of the government. If there is a debate, the challenger has no obvious advantage over him. By the time of the big change, the candidates are on the same starting line, which will be relatively fair.

Conclusion: That is to say, there will be a pattern that the chief executive can always be for ten years?

H: Not necessarily. Looking at Hong Kong for so many years, no chief executive has been able to serve for ten years. Mr. Tung has only served for eight years; Donald Tsang has served for seven years; and now Leung Chun-ying has served for five years. It will definitely be harder to face "universal suffrage". He doesn't have the guts to "fall into the district" now. How do you tell him to go to universal suffrage?

All in all: But the situation in Macau is that Ho Hau Wah has been the Chief Executive for ten years, and Chui Sai On's successful re-election this time is a foregone conclusion. Does it mean that it is easier to do in Macau?

He: In fact, it is relatively easy to be the chief executive in Macau, because from the perspective of the regulatory system, the Legislative Council has officials and members, and at least many things are guaranteed. In people's livelihood, such an approach is boring. Legal and reasonable supervision should and cannot be absent, which must be clear.

All in all: There will be competition within the Hong Kong establishment. It seems that Macau has appointed the chief executive by default. Is the internal control stable?

He: No one controls me. I’m a member of the establishment. I can’t even say that I’m not a member of the establishment. If you say that I’m not a “big guy”, I’m all a “fine guy”. The water in Macau is very deep, and there are many historical backgrounds. Must be clear.

All in all: If there is another term, who will have a better chance?

He: Well, a day is too long for political matters, not a year. It is difficult to assess what happened after six years. Do you think I am a Feng Shui master and can guess who it is? Only until the end will know.

After the re-election, will the chief executive, Chui Sai On, reorganize the team?

He: I think this is absolutely necessary, because the current team is all "original" and basically the measures taken under the condition that the second government does not move. Now after 15 years of administration, I think it is necessary to make appropriate adjustments. If you are brave enough, it is not a problem to have big hands and feet.

If adjustments are made, of course, the establishment of civil servants should not be expanded. In 2014, the establishment reached more than 32,000 people, which is already amazing! If possible, the establishment should be reduced, overlapping should be reduced, and related departments should be merged.

The bottom line: Which government departments should be integrated?

He: Does Macau need so many foundations? Now those industry funds are too many and too messy! Many problems are prone to occur. Each fund can apply for money, and in the end, a lot of public funds may be wasted.

At present, the foundations are independent. The cultural industry fund can apply, and the Macao foundation can apply. For applicants, every place may want to "hit the lottery". But in order to make good use of public funds and reduce repeated applications, all foundations need to have a networking system.

In such a small place in Macau, the industry is not very prosperous, so there should not be too many funds. Now there are tens of billions of money in the non-government treasury, and it is in the hands of these funds! The government has no way to manage it, which is a big problem. Therefore, the "Outline Budget Law" must be revised. The current government should be too late to do it, but the next government must do it

Conclusion: What's wrong with the current Outline Budget Law?

Congrats: Macau needs a real "Budget Law". The so-called "Outline Budget Law" has been in use for 30 years. The idea is to formulate a real "budget law". The current "Outline Budget Law" is no longer in line with the development needs of Macau, and will cause many loopholes in the government's finances. It is hoped that all funds will be included in the Budget Law.

The income of many funds is allocated by the government. Although the Macau Foundation has independent income, it is all public money. At present, all foundations are "autonomous organizations", and no one can manage them. The Finance Bureau can't manage them, and neither can the Legislative Council! Have the ICAC and the Audit Commission, the most powerful ones, ever reviewed these situations?

The Legislative Council does not have this authority. It is good for oral questions, good for written questions, and good for debates, but it cannot supervise the foundation. But remember, money is public money, and all income comes from the public money of Macau people. The problem now is that when the money reaches the foundation, it becomes the money of an independent kingdom. This is the biggest problem!

The last Legislative Council passed the "Three Laws" on land and cultural heritage, and the "three major laws" on city planning have already been locked up in terms of land supervision. Basically, there are many areas that can be regulated. The next step is the question of money. If there is a problem in the audit, it can actually be handed over to the Independent Commission Against Corruption. If the ICAC finds there is a problem, it will be handed over to the procuratorate. The procuratorate has enough evidence to prosecute and can be handed over to the court. Therefore, the Independent Commission Against Corruption should take care of the facts, not to judge this is wrong or that is not good. The Audit Commission should also do what it has the authority to do.

The legislative work is not done well, and the Legislative Council cannot shirk its responsibility. However, if the government does not propose proposals, the Legislative Council cannot do anything. It is related to the government's economic policy and government administration. The government must cooperate with the Legislative Council. The enactment of the "Budget Law" will certainly have a lot of controversy between the Legislative Council and the government, but the Legislative Council will adhere to the principle of conforming to the overall interests of Macau's development.

All in all: Let you be the chief executive, what would you do?

He: Being the Chief Executive in Macau will involve a lot of hard work. My ability is too low, so I can't do it, haha!

Conclusion: What are the challenges for the next chief executive, and what should his governance philosophy be?

He: Any special capital should focus on the people's livelihood. In addition to the people's livelihood affairs, Macao is also the people's livelihood affairs. People's livelihood affairs, but housing, transportation, education, three or five things are the main force. Because the economy is already booming, the new government should cultivate more talents and lay the foundation for the fifth government.

Do key officials have to be dispatched by the establishment to hire someone? It should be from the director to the director, the director to the chief executive, and it should flow upward like a pyramid. This is a sustainable development policy, focusing on training to promote the mobility between the directors.

Now a director has been in the same bureau for 15 years, which is not good and tends to become rigid. It is not a good thing for any person to work in the same position for fifteen years, and it is not good for his subordinates just waiting to retire. The boss will never retire, and the subordinates will never have the opportunity to be promoted. A director who has done a good job should be transferred to a bad bureau. Waiting for him to play is no big deal. After three years, he will be replaced. Therefore, the government has to rearrange its methods of employing people.

All in all: Will any Secretary be selected from among the Secretary?

He: I can't see any director with this ability now, haha! The current Secretary is too limited to the scope of his own bureau. One Secretary has to manage a lot of areas. The Macao area is very small, but the sparrow is small and has all the internal organs. The promotion of director to director requires a period of practice.

All in all: Then will it be selected from the social elite?

He: No, I don't think there are many elites in society who are willing to go to such a hot place. Every time they go to the Legislative Council, parents, parents, wives and children have to bring them. It's not so fun, right? Ha ha!

The main officials of the current government are basically not moving. After five years of administration, they should be bold to make adjustments. Otherwise, Macau is really too rigid! In the current implementation situation, for ordinary people, if they do not do well, it means that the SAR government does not do well. Every director works hard, but if he does it for too long, he will not be able to exert his ability if he does not change positions.

Bottom line: The biggest dissatisfaction the public has with officials at the moment is their inability to hold them accountable.

He: The Secretary is not an accountability official, but a civil servant. He can be a consultant. Now, many Directors have gone to work as consultants. Do you think this is accountability? Our question is only for officials at the department level. However, the key issue is the extent of the mistakes and the extent to which the citizens should be held accountable for losses.

Make a little mistake and step down immediately? I think every day in Macau senior officials are about to step down! At present, malfeasance does not need to step down, and malfeasance is difficult to define. Corruption is the easiest way for a high-ranking official to step down, but when he is not corrupt, how can he find evidence of his corruption?

Personally, I think accountability can be done, but it needs to be defined. How to distinguish responsibilities? This may require a court decision, and everyone can shut up first. The sentence is light and useless, and the sentence is heavy, what should I do in the future? Who will do it next? This is the three evil position, whoever ascends will die.

All in all: Officials work so hard, often like a dumb person eating a yellow lotus, and there are words of suffering. Is it because the ruling coalition has too many interests in it?

He: The society may understand it this way, but I personally understand that there may be some factors, but not the main factor. The main factor is the mechanism of employing people. For example, in the case of gambling cards, there must be a commercial factor. Alas, so, the government is very annoying. I often say, don't do it if you don't have the ability, haha!

All: Do you think Cui Shian has this ability?

He: Yes! I have been doing it for five years, how can I not have this ability? Anyone who takes this position will have opinions, and in the next five years, the opinions will be even greater. Even harder to do is the second five years. Finding good talents will help him in dealing with people's livelihood affairs. There is no economic problem in Macau, the most important thing is rationality and fairness. Being fair is the hardest thing.

Conclusion: Does Macau need a strong chief executive?

He: Being strong enough is a good thing, but it should be comprehensive, not one side. How to take each step, you should think more. Knowledge should be strengthened, many things need to think for themselves.

All in all: But now Chui Sai On already has something like the "Eighteen Arhats", with eighteen advisors helping him govern. What is there to worry about?

He: So, if you say something to me, I don't know which one is better, haha! So, you have to think about everything for yourself.

All in all: In the third term of the Chief Executive election, you were the most recognized among the establishment and the central government, and of course you were the most popular candidate for the Chief Executive. Why did you refuse to be "elected" back then? Will you run in the next election?

He: In the next year, everyone will be old, haha... Macau is a place with complicated connections. I'm not a person with complicated connections. There are many things that will be chaotic. Officials want to kill people. It's really not that easy to get rain.

I have made an assessment myself. When I come to the Legislative Council, I don't care. I will do what I can do. What should be made public will be made public, and what should be done will be done. I will definitely do a good job of fairness. The words of the chief executive are not suitable, really not suitable, but you have this ability, everyone has the ability, I am a little worse than him, so he (Cui Shian) is right, haha!

Doing the work of the Legislative Council well, helping the government as well as the people of Macau, this is my own view of being a human being. This experience, I think is worthwhile, is my responsibility.

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